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Technical: Taproot: Why Activate?

This is a follow-up on https://old.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/hqzp14/technical_the_path_to_taproot_activation/
Taproot! Everybody wants it!! But... you might ask yourself: sure, everybody else wants it, but why would I, sovereign Bitcoin HODLer, want it? Surely I can be better than everybody else because I swapped XXX fiat for Bitcoin unlike all those nocoiners?
And it is important for you to know the reasons why you, o sovereign Bitcoiner, would want Taproot activated. After all, your nodes (or the nodes your wallets use, which if you are SPV, you hopefully can pester to your wallet vendoimplementor about) need to be upgraded in order for Taproot activation to actually succeed instead of becoming a hot sticky mess.
First, let's consider some principles of Bitcoin.
I'm sure most of us here would agree that the above are very important principles of Bitcoin and that these are principles we would not be willing to remove. If anything, we would want those principles strengthened (especially the last one, financial privacy, which current Bitcoin is only sporadically strong with: you can get privacy, it just requires effort to do so).
So, how does Taproot affect those principles?

Taproot and Your /Coins

Most HODLers probably HODL their coins in singlesig addresses. Sadly, switching to Taproot would do very little for you (it gives a mild discount at spend time, at the cost of a mild increase in fee at receive time (paid by whoever sends to you, so if it's a self-send from a P2PKH or bech32 address, you pay for this); mostly a wash).
(technical details: a Taproot output is 1 version byte + 32 byte public key, while a P2WPKH (bech32 singlesig) output is 1 version byte + 20 byte public key hash, so the Taproot output spends 12 bytes more; spending from a P2WPKH requires revealing a 32-byte public key later, which is not needed with Taproot, and Taproot signatures are about 9 bytes smaller than P2WPKH signatures, but the 32 bytes plus 9 bytes is divided by 4 because of the witness discount, so it saves about 11 bytes; mostly a wash, it increases blockweight by about 1 virtual byte, 4 weight for each Taproot-output-input, compared to P2WPKH-output-input).
However, as your HODLings grow in value, you might start wondering if multisignature k-of-n setups might be better for the security of your savings. And it is in multisignature that Taproot starts to give benefits!
Taproot switches to using Schnorr signing scheme. Schnorr makes key aggregation -- constructing a single public key from multiple public keys -- almost as trivial as adding numbers together. "Almost" because it involves some fairly advanced math instead of simple boring number adding, but hey when was the last time you added up your grocery list prices by hand huh?
With current P2SH and P2WSH multisignature schemes, if you have a 2-of-3 setup, then to spend, you need to provide two different signatures from two different public keys. With Taproot, you can create, using special moon math, a single public key that represents your 2-of-3 setup. Then you just put two of your devices together, have them communicate to each other (this can be done airgapped, in theory, by sending QR codes: the software to do this is not even being built yet, but that's because Taproot hasn't activated yet!), and they will make a single signature to authorize any spend from your 2-of-3 address. That's 73 witness bytes -- 18.25 virtual bytes -- of signatures you save!
And if you decide that your current setup with 1-of-1 P2PKH / P2WPKH addresses is just fine as-is: well, that's the whole point of a softfork: backwards-compatibility; you can receive from Taproot users just fine, and once your wallet is updated for Taproot-sending support, you can send to Taproot users just fine as well!
(P2WPKH and P2WSH -- SegWit v0 -- addresses start with bc1q; Taproot -- SegWit v1 --- addresses start with bc1p, in case you wanted to know the difference; in bech32 q is 0, p is 1)
Now how about HODLers who keep all, or some, of their coins on custodial services? Well, any custodial service worth its salt would be doing at least 2-of-3, or probably something even bigger, like 11-of-15. So your custodial service, if it switched to using Taproot internally, could save a lot more (imagine an 11-of-15 getting reduced from 11 signatures to just 1!), which --- we can only hope! --- should translate to lower fees and better customer service from your custodial service!
So I think we can say, very accurately, that the Bitcoin principle --- that YOU are in control of your money --- can only be helped by Taproot (if you are doing multisignature), and, because P2PKH and P2WPKH remain validly-usable addresses in a Taproot future, will not be harmed by Taproot. Its benefit to this principle might be small (it mostly only benefits multisignature users) but since it has no drawbacks with this (i.e. singlesig users can continue to use P2WPKH and P2PKH still) this is still a nice, tidy win!
(even singlesig users get a minor benefit, in that multisig users will now reduce their blockchain space footprint, so that fees can be kept low for everybody; so for example even if you have your single set of private keys engraved on titanium plates sealed in an airtight box stored in a safe buried in a desert protected by angry nomads riding giant sandworms because you're the frickin' Kwisatz Haderach, you still gain some benefit from Taproot)
And here's the important part: if P2PKH/P2WPKH is working perfectly fine with you and you decide to never use Taproot yourself, Taproot will not affect you detrimentally. First do no harm!

Taproot and Your Contracts

No one is an island, no one lives alone. Give and you shall receive. You know: by trading with other people, you can gain expertise in some obscure little necessity of the world (and greatly increase your productivity in that little field), and then trade the products of your expertise for necessities other people have created, all of you thereby gaining gains from trade.
So, contracts, which are basically enforceable agreements that facilitate trading with people who you do not personally know and therefore might not trust.
Let's start with a simple example. You want to buy some gewgaws from somebody. But you don't know them personally. The seller wants the money, you want their gewgaws, but because of the lack of trust (you don't know them!! what if they're scammers??) neither of you can benefit from gains from trade.
However, suppose both of you know of some entity that both of you trust. That entity can act as a trusted escrow. The entity provides you security: this enables the trade, allowing both of you to get gains from trade.
In Bitcoin-land, this can be implemented as a 2-of-3 multisignature. The three signatories in the multisgnature would be you, the gewgaw seller, and the escrow. You put the payment for the gewgaws into this 2-of-3 multisignature address.
Now, suppose it turns out neither of you are scammers (whaaaat!). You receive the gewgaws just fine and you're willing to pay up for them. Then you and the gewgaw seller just sign a transaction --- you and the gewgaw seller are 2, sufficient to trigger the 2-of-3 --- that spends from the 2-of-3 address to a singlesig the gewgaw seller wants (or whatever address the gewgaw seller wants).
But suppose some problem arises. The seller gave you gawgews instead of gewgaws. Or you decided to keep the gewgaws but not sign the transaction to release the funds to the seller. In either case, the escrow is notified, and if it can sign with you to refund the funds back to you (if the seller was a scammer) or it can sign with the seller to forward the funds to the seller (if you were a scammer).
Taproot helps with this: like mentioned above, it allows multisignature setups to produce only one signature, reducing blockchain space usage, and thus making contracts --- which require multiple people, by definition, you don't make contracts with yourself --- is made cheaper (which we hope enables more of these setups to happen for more gains from trade for everyone, also, moon and lambos).
(technology-wise, it's easier to make an n-of-n than a k-of-n, making a k-of-n would require a complex setup involving a long ritual with many communication rounds between the n participants, but an n-of-n can be done trivially with some moon math. You can, however, make what is effectively a 2-of-3 by using a three-branch SCRIPT: either 2-of-2 of you and seller, OR 2-of-2 of you and escrow, OR 2-of-2 of escrow and seller. Fortunately, Taproot adds a facility to embed a SCRIPT inside a public key, so you can have a 2-of-2 Taprooted address (between you and seller) with a SCRIPT branch that can instead be spent with 2-of-2 (you + escrow) OR 2-of-2 (seller + escrow), which implements the three-branched SCRIPT above. If neither of you are scammers (hopefully the common case) then you both sign using your keys and never have to contact the escrow, since you are just using the escrow public key without coordinating with them (because n-of-n is trivial but k-of-n requires setup with communication rounds), so in the "best case" where both of you are honest traders, you also get a privacy boost, in that the escrow never learns you have been trading on gewgaws, I mean ewww, gawgews are much better than gewgaws and therefore I now judge you for being a gewgaw enthusiast, you filthy gewgawer).

Taproot and Your Contracts, Part 2: Cryptographic Boogaloo

Now suppose you want to buy some data instead of things. For example, maybe you have some closed-source software in trial mode installed, and want to pay the developer for the full version. You want to pay for an activation code.
This can be done, today, by using an HTLC. The developer tells you the hash of the activation code. You pay to an HTLC, paying out to the developer if it reveals the preimage (the activation code), or refunding the money back to you after a pre-agreed timeout. If the developer claims the funds, it has to reveal the preimage, which is the activation code, and you can now activate your software. If the developer does not claim the funds by the timeout, you get refunded.
And you can do that, with HTLCs, today.
Of course, HTLCs do have problems:
Fortunately, with Schnorr (which is enabled by Taproot), we can now use the Scriptless Script constuction by Andrew Poelstra. This Scriptless Script allows a new construction, the PTLC or Pointlocked Timelocked Contract. Instead of hashes and preimages, just replace "hash" with "point" and "preimage" with "scalar".
Or as you might know them: "point" is really "public key" and "scalar" is really a "private key". What a PTLC does is that, given a particular public key, the pointlocked branch can be spent only if the spender reveals the private key of the given public key to you.
Another nice thing with PTLCs is that they are deniable. What appears onchain is just a single 2-of-2 signature between you and the developemanufacturer. It's like a magic trick. This signature has no special watermarks, it's a perfectly normal signature (the pledge). However, from this signature, plus some datta given to you by the developemanufacturer (known as the adaptor signature) you can derive the private key of a particular public key you both agree on (the turn). Anyone scraping the blockchain will just see signatures that look just like every other signature, and as long as nobody manages to hack you and get a copy of the adaptor signature or the private key, they cannot get the private key behind the public key (point) that the pointlocked branch needs (the prestige).
(Just to be clear, the public key you are getting the private key from, is distinct from the public key that the developemanufacturer will use for its funds. The activation key is different from the developer's onchain Bitcoin key, and it is the activation key whose private key you will be learning, not the developer's/manufacturer's onchain Bitcoin key).
So:
Taproot lets PTLCs exist onchain because they enable Schnorr, which is a requirement of PTLCs / Scriptless Script.
(technology-wise, take note that Scriptless Script works only for the "pointlocked" branch of the contract; you need normal Script, or a pre-signed nLockTimed transaction, for the "timelocked" branch. Since Taproot can embed a script, you can have the Taproot pubkey be a 2-of-2 to implement the Scriptless Script "pointlocked" branch, then have a hidden script that lets you recover the funds with an OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY after the timeout if the seller does not claim the funds.)

Quantum Quibbles!

Now if you were really paying attention, you might have noticed this parenthetical:
(technical details: a Taproot output is 1 version byte + 32 byte public key, while a P2WPKH (bech32 singlesig) output is 1 version byte + 20 byte public key hash...)
So wait, Taproot uses raw 32-byte public keys, and not public key hashes? Isn't that more quantum-vulnerable??
Well, in theory yes. In practice, they probably are not.
It's not that hashes can be broken by quantum computes --- they're still not. Instead, you have to look at how you spend from a P2WPKH/P2PKH pay-to-public-key-hash.
When you spend from a P2PKH / P2WPKH, you have to reveal the public key. Then Bitcoin hashes it and checks if this matches with the public-key-hash, and only then actually validates the signature for that public key.
So an unconfirmed transaction, floating in the mempools of nodes globally, will show, in plain sight for everyone to see, your public key.
(public keys should be public, that's why they're called public keys, LOL)
And if quantum computers are fast enough to be of concern, then they are probably fast enough that, in the several minutes to several hours from broadcast to confirmation, they have already cracked the public key that is openly broadcast with your transaction. The owner of the quantum computer can now replace your unconfirmed transaction with one that pays the funds to itself. Even if you did not opt-in RBF, miners are still incentivized to support RBF on RBF-disabled transactions.
So the extra hash is not as significant a protection against quantum computers as you might think. Instead, the extra hash-and-compare needed is just extra validation effort.
Further, if you have ever, in the past, spent from the address, then there exists already a transaction indelibly stored on the blockchain, openly displaying the public key from which quantum computers can derive the private key. So those are still vulnerable to quantum computers.
For the most part, the cryptographers behind Taproot (and Bitcoin Core) are of the opinion that quantum computers capable of cracking Bitcoin pubkeys are unlikely to appear within a decade or two.
So:
For now, the homomorphic and linear properties of elliptic curve cryptography provide a lot of benefits --- particularly the linearity property is what enables Scriptless Script and simple multisignature (i.e. multisignatures that are just 1 signature onchain). So it might be a good idea to take advantage of them now while we are still fairly safe against quantum computers. It seems likely that quantum-safe signature schemes are nonlinear (thus losing these advantages).

Summary

I Wanna Be The Taprooter!

So, do you want to help activate Taproot? Here's what you, mister sovereign Bitcoin HODLer, can do!

But I Hate Taproot!!

That's fine!

Discussions About Taproot Activation

submitted by almkglor to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

[ Bitcoin ] Technical: Taproot: Why Activate?

Topic originally posted in Bitcoin by almkglor [link]
This is a follow-up on https://old.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/hqzp14/technical_the_path_to_taproot_activation/
Taproot! Everybody wants it!! But... you might ask yourself: sure, everybody else wants it, but why would I, sovereign Bitcoin HODLer, want it? Surely I can be better than everybody else because I swapped XXX fiat for Bitcoin unlike all those nocoiners?
And it is important for you to know the reasons why you, o sovereign Bitcoiner, would want Taproot activated. After all, your nodes (or the nodes your wallets use, which if you are SPV, you hopefully can pester to your wallet vendoimplementor about) need to be upgraded in order for Taproot activation to actually succeed instead of becoming a hot sticky mess.
First, let's consider some principles of Bitcoin.
I'm sure most of us here would agree that the above are very important principles of Bitcoin and that these are principles we would not be willing to remove. If anything, we would want those principles strengthened (especially the last one, financial privacy, which current Bitcoin is only sporadically strong with: you can get privacy, it just requires effort to do so).
So, how does Taproot affect those principles?

Taproot and Your /Coins

Most HODLers probably HODL their coins in singlesig addresses. Sadly, switching to Taproot would do very little for you (it gives a mild discount at spend time, at the cost of a mild increase in fee at receive time (paid by whoever sends to you, so if it's a self-send from a P2PKH or bech32 address, you pay for this); mostly a wash).
(technical details: a Taproot output is 1 version byte + 32 byte public key, while a P2WPKH (bech32 singlesig) output is 1 version byte + 20 byte public key hash, so the Taproot output spends 12 bytes more; spending from a P2WPKH requires revealing a 32-byte public key later, which is not needed with Taproot, and Taproot signatures are about 9 bytes smaller than P2WPKH signatures, but the 32 bytes plus 9 bytes is divided by 4 because of the witness discount, so it saves about 11 bytes; mostly a wash, it increases blockweight by about 1 virtual byte, 4 weight for each Taproot-output-input, compared to P2WPKH-output-input).
However, as your HODLings grow in value, you might start wondering if multisignature k-of-n setups might be better for the security of your savings. And it is in multisignature that Taproot starts to give benefits!
Taproot switches to using Schnorr signing scheme. Schnorr makes key aggregation -- constructing a single public key from multiple public keys -- almost as trivial as adding numbers together. "Almost" because it involves some fairly advanced math instead of simple boring number adding, but hey when was the last time you added up your grocery list prices by hand huh?
With current P2SH and P2WSH multisignature schemes, if you have a 2-of-3 setup, then to spend, you need to provide two different signatures from two different public keys. With Taproot, you can create, using special moon math, a single public key that represents your 2-of-3 setup. Then you just put two of your devices together, have them communicate to each other (this can be done airgapped, in theory, by sending QR codes: the software to do this is not even being built yet, but that's because Taproot hasn't activated yet!), and they will make a single signature to authorize any spend from your 2-of-3 address. That's 73 witness bytes -- 18.25 virtual bytes -- of signatures you save!
And if you decide that your current setup with 1-of-1 P2PKH / P2WPKH addresses is just fine as-is: well, that's the whole point of a softfork: backwards-compatibility; you can receive from Taproot users just fine, and once your wallet is updated for Taproot-sending support, you can send to Taproot users just fine as well!
(P2WPKH and P2WSH -- SegWit v0 -- addresses start with bc1q; Taproot -- SegWit v1 --- addresses start with bc1p, in case you wanted to know the difference; in bech32 q is 0, p is 1)
Now how about HODLers who keep all, or some, of their coins on custodial services? Well, any custodial service worth its salt would be doing at least 2-of-3, or probably something even bigger, like 11-of-15. So your custodial service, if it switched to using Taproot internally, could save a lot more (imagine an 11-of-15 getting reduced from 11 signatures to just 1!), which --- we can only hope! --- should translate to lower fees and better customer service from your custodial service!
So I think we can say, very accurately, that the Bitcoin principle --- that YOU are in control of your money --- can only be helped by Taproot (if you are doing multisignature), and, because P2PKH and P2WPKH remain validly-usable addresses in a Taproot future, will not be harmed by Taproot. Its benefit to this principle might be small (it mostly only benefits multisignature users) but since it has no drawbacks with this (i.e. singlesig users can continue to use P2WPKH and P2PKH still) this is still a nice, tidy win!
(even singlesig users get a minor benefit, in that multisig users will now reduce their blockchain space footprint, so that fees can be kept low for everybody; so for example even if you have your single set of private keys engraved on titanium plates sealed in an airtight box stored in a safe buried in a desert protected by angry nomads riding giant sandworms because you're the frickin' Kwisatz Haderach, you still gain some benefit from Taproot)
And here's the important part: if P2PKH/P2WPKH is working perfectly fine with you and you decide to never use Taproot yourself, Taproot will not affect you detrimentally. First do no harm!

Taproot and Your Contracts

No one is an island, no one lives alone. Give and you shall receive. You know: by trading with other people, you can gain expertise in some obscure little necessity of the world (and greatly increase your productivity in that little field), and then trade the products of your expertise for necessities other people have created, all of you thereby gaining gains from trade.
So, contracts, which are basically enforceable agreements that facilitate trading with people who you do not personally know and therefore might not trust.
Let's start with a simple example. You want to buy some gewgaws from somebody. But you don't know them personally. The seller wants the money, you want their gewgaws, but because of the lack of trust (you don't know them!! what if they're scammers??) neither of you can benefit from gains from trade.
However, suppose both of you know of some entity that both of you trust. That entity can act as a trusted escrow. The entity provides you security: this enables the trade, allowing both of you to get gains from trade.
In Bitcoin-land, this can be implemented as a 2-of-3 multisignature. The three signatories in the multisgnature would be you, the gewgaw seller, and the escrow. You put the payment for the gewgaws into this 2-of-3 multisignature address.
Now, suppose it turns out neither of you are scammers (whaaaat!). You receive the gewgaws just fine and you're willing to pay up for them. Then you and the gewgaw seller just sign a transaction --- you and the gewgaw seller are 2, sufficient to trigger the 2-of-3 --- that spends from the 2-of-3 address to a singlesig the gewgaw seller wants (or whatever address the gewgaw seller wants).
But suppose some problem arises. The seller gave you gawgews instead of gewgaws. Or you decided to keep the gewgaws but not sign the transaction to release the funds to the seller. In either case, the escrow is notified, and if it can sign with you to refund the funds back to you (if the seller was a scammer) or it can sign with the seller to forward the funds to the seller (if you were a scammer).
Taproot helps with this: like mentioned above, it allows multisignature setups to produce only one signature, reducing blockchain space usage, and thus making contracts --- which require multiple people, by definition, you don't make contracts with yourself --- is made cheaper (which we hope enables more of these setups to happen for more gains from trade for everyone, also, moon and lambos).
(technology-wise, it's easier to make an n-of-n than a k-of-n, making a k-of-n would require a complex setup involving a long ritual with many communication rounds between the n participants, but an n-of-n can be done trivially with some moon math. You can, however, make what is effectively a 2-of-3 by using a three-branch SCRIPT: either 2-of-2 of you and seller, OR 2-of-2 of you and escrow, OR 2-of-2 of escrow and seller. Fortunately, Taproot adds a facility to embed a SCRIPT inside a public key, so you can have a 2-of-2 Taprooted address (between you and seller) with a SCRIPT branch that can instead be spent with 2-of-2 (you + escrow) OR 2-of-2 (seller + escrow), which implements the three-branched SCRIPT above. If neither of you are scammers (hopefully the common case) then you both sign using your keys and never have to contact the escrow, since you are just using the escrow public key without coordinating with them (because n-of-n is trivial but k-of-n requires setup with communication rounds), so in the "best case" where both of you are honest traders, you also get a privacy boost, in that the escrow never learns you have been trading on gewgaws, I mean ewww, gawgews are much better than gewgaws and therefore I now judge you for being a gewgaw enthusiast, you filthy gewgawer).

Taproot and Your Contracts, Part 2: Cryptographic Boogaloo

Now suppose you want to buy some data instead of things. For example, maybe you have some closed-source software in trial mode installed, and want to pay the developer for the full version. You want to pay for an activation code.
This can be done, today, by using an HTLC. The developer tells you the hash of the activation code. You pay to an HTLC, paying out to the developer if it reveals the preimage (the activation code), or refunding the money back to you after a pre-agreed timeout. If the developer claims the funds, it has to reveal the preimage, which is the activation code, and you can now activate your software. If the developer does not claim the funds by the timeout, you get refunded.
And you can do that, with HTLCs, today.
Of course, HTLCs do have problems:
Fortunately, with Schnorr (which is enabled by Taproot), we can now use the Scriptless Script constuction by Andrew Poelstra. This Scriptless Script allows a new construction, the PTLC or Pointlocked Timelocked Contract. Instead of hashes and preimages, just replace "hash" with "point" and "preimage" with "scalar".
Or as you might know them: "point" is really "public key" and "scalar" is really a "private key". What a PTLC does is that, given a particular public key, the pointlocked branch can be spent only if the spender reveals the private key of the given private key to you.
Another nice thing with PTLCs is that they are deniable. What appears onchain is just a single 2-of-2 signature between you and the developemanufacturer. It's like a magic trick. This signature has no special watermarks, it's a perfectly normal signature (the pledge). However, from this signature, plus some datta given to you by the developemanufacturer (known as the adaptor signature) you can derive the private key of a particular public key you both agree on (the turn). Anyone scraping the blockchain will just see signatures that look just like every other signature, and as long as nobody manages to hack you and get a copy of the adaptor signature or the private key, they cannot get the private key behind the public key (point) that the pointlocked branch needs (the prestige).
(Just to be clear, the public key you are getting the private key from, is distinct from the public key that the developemanufacturer will use for its funds. The activation key is different from the developer's onchain Bitcoin key, and it is the activation key whose private key you will be learning, not the developer's/manufacturer's onchain Bitcoin key).
So:
Taproot lets PTLCs exist onchain because they enable Schnorr, which is a requirement of PTLCs / Scriptless Script.
(technology-wise, take note that Scriptless Script works only for the "pointlocked" branch of the contract; you need normal Script, or a pre-signed nLockTimed transaction, for the "timelocked" branch. Since Taproot can embed a script, you can have the Taproot pubkey be a 2-of-2 to implement the Scriptless Script "pointlocked" branch, then have a hidden script that lets you recover the funds with an OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY after the timeout if the seller does not claim the funds.)

Quantum Quibbles!

Now if you were really paying attention, you might have noticed this parenthetical:
(technical details: a Taproot output is 1 version byte + 32 byte public key, while a P2WPKH (bech32 singlesig) output is 1 version byte + 20 byte public key hash...)
So wait, Taproot uses raw 32-byte public keys, and not public key hashes? Isn't that more quantum-vulnerable??
Well, in theory yes. In practice, they probably are not.
It's not that hashes can be broken by quantum computes --- they're still not. Instead, you have to look at how you spend from a P2WPKH/P2PKH pay-to-public-key-hash.
When you spend from a P2PKH / P2WPKH, you have to reveal the public key. Then Bitcoin hashes it and checks if this matches with the public-key-hash, and only then actually validates the signature for that public key.
So an unconfirmed transaction, floating in the mempools of nodes globally, will show, in plain sight for everyone to see, your public key.
(public keys should be public, that's why they're called public keys, LOL)
And if quantum computers are fast enough to be of concern, then they are probably fast enough that, in the several minutes to several hours from broadcast to confirmation, they have already cracked the public key that is openly broadcast with your transaction. The owner of the quantum computer can now replace your unconfirmed transaction with one that pays the funds to itself. Even if you did not opt-in RBF, miners are still incentivized to support RBF on RBF-disabled transactions.
So the extra hash is not as significant a protection against quantum computers as you might think. Instead, the extra hash-and-compare needed is just extra validation effort.
Further, if you have ever, in the past, spent from the address, then there exists already a transaction indelibly stored on the blockchain, openly displaying the public key from which quantum computers can derive the private key. So those are still vulnerable to quantum computers.
For the most part, the cryptographers behind Taproot (and Bitcoin Core) are of the opinion that quantum computers capable of cracking Bitcoin pubkeys are unlikely to appear within a decade or two.
So:
For now, the homomorphic and linear properties of elliptic curve cryptography provide a lot of benefits --- particularly the linearity property is what enables Scriptless Script and simple multisignature (i.e. multisignatures that are just 1 signature onchain). So it might be a good idea to take advantage of them now while we are still fairly safe against quantum computers. It seems likely that quantum-safe signature schemes are nonlinear (thus losing these advantages).

Summary

I Wanna Be The Taprooter!

So, do you want to help activate Taproot? Here's what you, mister sovereign Bitcoin HODLer, can do!

But I Hate Taproot!!

That's fine!

Discussions About Taproot Activation

almkglor your post has been copied because one or more comments in this topic have been removed. This copy will preserve unmoderated topic. If you would like to opt-out, please send a message using [this link].
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What the upcoming years might hold in store for bitcoin (a technical outlook by John Newbery)

John Newbery is a developer contributing to Bitcoin Core and to various educational resources like Bitcoin Optech.
Original source is here: https://twitter.com/jfnewbery/status/1208559196465184768. Keep in mind that the text below is copied from Twitter, so the formatting/phrasing might seem a little strange.
--------------------------------------------------------

The end of the decade is a good time to look back and marvel at the giant strides that Bitcoin has made since Satoshi gave us the whitepaper in 2008. It's also a natural point to look forward to what the upcoming years might hold in store.
This is where I think Bitcoin is headed over the next few years. Tell me why I'm wrong and what I've missed!
The lightning protocol teams working on c-lightning (@Blockstream), eclair (@acinq_co), LND (@lightning) and rust lightning will continue to iterate rapidly on the lightning protocol.
All implementations now support basic multi-path payments (https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/multipath-payments/). We'll get better support of that as well as dual-funding, splice-in and splice-out (https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/splicing/).
Taken together, those technologies will make channel and liquidity management much easier. They'll be automated, fade into the background and user experience will improve drastically.
Lightning infrastructure will improve. @bitfinex recently added lightning deposits and withdrawals. All other exchanges, merchant service providers, custodians and wallets will follow suit or become obsolete.
We'll see more lightning wallets: a mix of non-custodial; self-custodied with outsourced routing; and fully-self-managed wallets. This is a brand new space and there'll be lots of experimentation. Different teams will find different niches to fill.
Already, wallets like @MuunWallet, @Breez_Tech, @PhoenixWallet, @ln_zapand @bluewalletio are experimenting with different models.
Tooling for lightning developers will improve. When we ran the lightning apps residency just over a year ago, the attendees spent a lot of time setting up their lightning dev environments.
Now, with Polar (https://github.com/jamaljspolar) by @jamaljsr, lightning app developers can set up a test environment with a few clicks. More and better tools will continue to appear.
With better tooling, we'll see faster innovation on the application layer. Teams at @zebedeeio, @SatoshisGames, and others we haven't heard of yet will delight us with new and unexpected lightning experiences.
The schnortaproot softfork (https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/taproot/) will be activated in 2020 or 2021. That'll provide a huge improvement in fungibility, privacy, scalability and functionality. For an overview of the benefits, watch the Optech exec briefing here: https://bitcoinops.org/en/2019-exec-briefing/#the-next-softfork
That'll allow lightning to upgrade from HTLCs to Payment Points. That's a big improvement for privacy and payment decorrelation, and allows 'Stuckless payments' with proofs-of-payment -- another huge boost in LN usablity.
See the @suredbits series of blog posts here https://suredbits.com/payment-points-part-1/ for more details on Payment Points.
Even better, lightning channel opens and closes will look identical to payments to single pubkeys. The same is true for payments to k-of-n pubkey thresholds. That's good for fungibility, privacy and scalability.
In fact, with schnortaproot, there's almost no downside to encumbering UTXOs with advanced scripts instead of single pubkey outputs.
Cold storage UTXOs will be k-of-n multisig keytrees, and all hot wallet UTXOs will be stored in channels (with splicing-out used to make on-chain payments). When transactions hit the chain, they'll look like any other single pubkey/signature payment.
Payments into wallets will pay directly into channel open outputs (thanks to @esneider for pointing this out to me). There'll be no concept of an on-chain balance and an in-channel balance. Just a single, unified balance that can be used for lightning or on-chain payments.
Wallet teams will collaborate on a PayJoin payment protocol (https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/payjoin/). A large number of on-chain transactions will be 2-input-2-ouput transactions, vastly improving fungibility and privacy, and foiling chain analysis.
The inputs to those PayJoin transactions may be channel splice-outs, and the outputs may be channel opens, but there'll be no way to tell from observing the chain.
Eventually we'll have cross-input signature aggregation (https://bitcoincore.org/en/2017/03/23/schnorr-signature-aggregation/#signature-aggregation), which means those PayJoin transactions will only have a single signature, and will be *cheaper* than regular change-producing transactions.
Larger coinjoins will be cheaper still. An advanced PayJoin payment protocol could even batch multiple payments to the same merchant/exchange and use only a single signature.
We'll get SIGHASH_NOINPUT or SIGHASH_ANYPREVOUT (https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/sighash_noinput/), making eltoo (https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/eltoo/) possible, and blurring the lines between layer 1 and layer 2 (https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2019-Septembe002136.html).
That'll make lightning even more usable and allow more advanced layer 2 contracts like channel factories (https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/channel-factories/).
All these advanced features will require greater wallet interoperability. That's where miniscript (https://bitcoinops.org/en/topics/miniscript/) comes in.
With miniscript, wallets will eventually be able to enter contracts with each other that don't require pre-templated scripts (as lightning currently does). This wallet interoperability will allow faster innovation in layer 2 contracts.
OP_CTV (https://bitcoinops.org/en/newsletters/2019/12/04/#op-checktemplateverify-ctv) or some other covenant-enabling opcode will be activated, allowing richer layer 2 constructions like joinpools (https://freenode.irclog.whitequark.org/bitcoin-wizards/2019-05-21#1558427254-1558427441).
Taken together with taproot and SIGHASH_NOINPUT, we'll get extremely rich and private off-chain contracts will be made possible.
Some of these things will happen in 2020, and some will take a bit longer, but they're all heading in the same direction: using the chain for what the chain's good for (h/t Andrew Poelstra).
That's to say: the block chain allows nodes to arrive at an agreed ledger state, while contracting and functionality move up onto layer two. Doing so is cheaper, more secure, more private and allows for more rapid innovation.
None of this is inevitable, and none can happen without the industry of many hands and the creativity of many minds. There are years of work ahead for developers, researchers, businesses and users.
If you run a Bitcoin business, you can help by supporting, sponsoring or hiring open source developers.
If you're a Bitcoin user, you can help by *demanding* that any service you use supports the open source ecosystem.
If you're a developer, you can help by reviewing and testing PRs and releases. https://bitcoincore.reviews/ is a great place to start.
2020 is going to be a great year for Bitcoin and Lightning protocol development!
/fin
submitted by TheGreatMuffin to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

freenode/

freenode.net
[13:47:03] The guide is divided into sections, each with a specific section of activity and a cause for why I should work on that area.
[13:47:03] Those are still facts
[13:47:08] So there is still a little more work to do.
[13:47:15] I need to add all the pages to the wiki.
[13:47:18] After that, I'll start putting more resources up, including some images and if I'm doing it right, some story sections.
[13:47
freenode/ip.92.189.211.175) has joined #/cicada3302
[17:37] O_O
[17:37] damnit
[17:37] dude who's running said server?
[17:37] anyone?
[17:37] I'm at work... http://www.reddit.com/cicada3302/comments/1s3wwz/found_the_code_has_been_decoded_everything_is/cdtr0oa
[17:38]
freenode/ip.50.212.6.250) has joined #bitcoin24
ekdudez: your p2pool network is really part of your bitcoin.dat (A link to your wallet can be found here: https://www.reddit.com/bitcoin/comments/2pq3nx/live_updates_on_the_relay_problem/).
* LQbot (~[email protected]) Quit (Ping timeout: 192 seconds)
ekdudez: your node is NOT part of the bitcoin.dat file, and if it were it wouldn't have a
freenode/ip.39.149.160.167) has joined #/cicada3302
[21:18] or uh, scribe great, wtf?
[21:18] He's come into this room, perhaps from the dark house? So we should return the greeting?
[21:18] (We can't go there. I don't think. He's been there before, but on a cloudy day.)
[21:18] <@shecalledmepaul> no it's been such a while since youve heard anything that I don't think you'll remember
[21:18] <@shecalledmepaul
freenode/ip.54.232.161.153) Quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[10:47] how about talk about the XP drop rate in general?
[10:47] also
[10:47] <@dine909> wait wtf
[10:47] <@dine909> X is 75%
[10:47] <@dine909> of XP
[10:47] i think you have to have very high level to get 95% in dungeons
[10:47] <@dine909> yeah i guess
[10:48] but yeah
[10:48] maybe it has something
freenode/ip.68.56.156.96] has joined #/cicada3302
[01:45] and yes, we have /vaspool/cicada3302/daemon/rules also. anything is possible, we know that
[01:45] not everything though
[01:45] well, some of the entries do not exist
[01:45] So this new detective in the thread goes by "ricardo75"?
[01:46] Hi everyone, I am new here, but I'm quite convinced that whoever made this 2.
submitted by ObsidianMinor to talktotransformer [link] [comments]

Questionable Decisions

Facts
linustechtips.com:
In 2017 Knapp sold CyberGhost to an Israeli company called Crossrider for €9.2 million.
Crossrider changed its name to “Kape Technologies” in 2018 – for reasons that we’ll explain below.
Now here’s where things get interesting. When you research the company Crossrider (now Kape) you learn it is a company known for infecting devices with malware.
When you research the company Crossrider, you find numerous articles about Crossrider malware and adware, such as this article from Malwarebytes:
Crossrider offers a highly configurable method for its clients to monetize their software. The common method to infect end-users is software bundlers. The installers usually resort to browser hijacking. Targeted browsers are Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, and sometimes Opera. Crossrider not only targets Windows machines but Macs as well.
PUP.Optional.Crossrider installs are typically triggered by bundlers that offer software you might be interested in and combine them with adware or other monetizing methods.
According to Malwarebytes and many other reputable online security websites, Crossrider was hiding malware in software bundlers, which would then infect the user’s computer with “adware or other monetizing methods”.
Trust takes years to build, second to break and Forever to repair.
submitted by KSOFM to PrivateInternetAccess [link] [comments]

Brief History Of Bitcoin

Brief History Of Bitcoin
Bitcoins have been classed as the world's originally decentralized cash, and for as far back as ten years, they have become all the more notable and keep on developing in notoriety.

The following is a concise history of how the Bitcoin began and what has occurred since.

2007 - It was in 2007 that the idea of the Bitcoin started. It is accepted that it was begun by Satoshi Nakamoto, in spite of the fact that very little is thought about him, other than the reality he is on record as living in Japan. Truth be told, many conjecture this may very well be a pen name more than one individual. Albeit soon, this character totally evaporated from the world.

August 2008 An application for an encryption patent application was recorded by three people who denied having any association with the supposed originator of the Bitcoin idea. They were Neal Kin, Vladimir Oksman and Charles Bry.

Around the same time, they namelessly purchased and enlisted the space bitcoin.org.

October 2008 In October of 2008, only two months after the space was enlisted, a paper titled, 'Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System', was distributed on a cryptography mailing list, apparently composed by Satoshi Nakamoto.

The paper laid out the establishment of how the Bitcoin would really work, and takes care of the issue of cash being duplicated, which permitted Bitcoin to develop genuinely.

November 2008 A month after the white paper was distributed, the Bitcoin venture is enlisted on a network joint effort site, SourceForge, which centers around the improvement and circulation of open source programming.

January 2009 In mid 2009, the principal square, which was nicknamed 'Beginning' is propelled, which permitted the primary adaptation of Bitcoin to be discharged.

There was further hypothesis that Bitcoins were created by more than one individual, as it had been accumulated with Microsoft Visual Studio for Windows, yet needed order line interface. It was anticipated as of now that a Bitcoin age framework would make a sum of 21 million Bitcoins during that time 2040.

Later on, right now, first exchange occurred among Satoshi and Hal Finney, a designer and cryptographic lobbyist.

October 2009 In October, New Liberty Standard distributes a Bitcoin swapping scale. The worth was built up and they distributed a pace of a Bitcoin at 1USD = 1,309.03 BTC. This was chosen utilizing a condition that incorporated the expense of the power to run the PC that produced Bitcoins.

Later on this month, the #bitcoin-dev channel is enrolled on freenode IRC, which was a conversation arrange intended for nothing and open source advancement networks.

December 2009 In late 2009, the second form of the Bitcoin was created and discharged; anyway later on in the month, they acquired their first trouble increment.

February 2010 In mid 2010, the Bitcoin money trade was conceived, and the Market was built up by the now ancient organization dollar. Later on in the month, and 18 months after the application was documented, the encryption patent was distributed and endorsed.

May 2010 This month would end up being an achievement for Bitcoins, because of the way that the primary genuine exchange occurred. A software engineer named Laszlo Hanyecz, who lived in Florida pays 10,000 Bitcoins on a pizza, that was initially purchased from Papa Johns by a volunteer in England. The conversion scale at the time put the price tag for the pizza at 25USD.

https://preview.redd.it/93tj7l1248g41.jpg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ddd04f2fc86eaf33bc9894dd98f30781511c4f42
Given the present swapping scale, today the pizza is esteemed at 1,961,034GBP.

July 2010 The third form of Bitcoin is created and discharged. Later on that month, there were an enormous number of new Bitcoin clients, on account of a notice of the new form on Slashdot.

During a multi day time of this current month, the trade estimation of Bitcoin expanded multiple times, from 0.0008USD/BTC to 0.080USD/BTC which the prompted Jed McCaleb building up a Bitcoin money trade showcase named MtGox.

August 2010 August 2010 end up being a sad month for the Bitcoin, and the framework was hacked. A defenselessness in the framework caused Bitcoins to be inappropriately checked, and accordingly abused, which brought about the age of 184 million Bitcoins. The made the worth drop radically.

September 2010 This was a bustling month for Bitcoins, as they attempted to recoup from the hacking the earlier month. An offer was made by jgarzik as 10,000BTC, which was proportionate to 650USD at that point, to open source their Windows-based CUDA customer. Later on that month, they took this offer and discharged the source, under the MIT permit.

October 2010 Bitcoins confronted a ton of investigation this month, when a between administrative gathering named The Financial Action Task Force gave a report on tax evasion, notice about the utilization of computerized monetary standards to fund fear based oppressor gatherings.

In spite of this report, the Bitcoin swapping scale, which had slowed down, started to climb once more. This came after the principal open adaptation of an OpenCL digger is discharged.
submitted by Bitcoin12investment to u/Bitcoin12investment [link] [comments]

Writing a short early history of ICOs, starting with altcoins - anything important I've missed?

This is for the forever-forthcoming ICO book. But I figured I needed to talk about altcoins first, the previous generation of shitcoins. This is mostly from dredging early altcoin stuff on Bitcointalk.
There needs to be a bit of the end that leads from The DAO as a world-famous ICO to the 2017 crypto bubble, and ICOs booming in that. Is there anything super-relevant I've missed? In the context of ICOs as we now know them, not just altcoins. Ethereum and Ripple probably.
The early history of ICOs
In the beginning was Bitcoin.
That’s the start for every cryptocurrency and blockchain story. Different parts are important to different people — fun and interesting technology, decentralised money, fighting the oppressive statist jackboots of taxation, sticking it to the man.
What ICOs inherit from Bitcoin is the notion of inventing your own magical Internet money — so you can get rich for free. Bitcoin was released in January 2009 as an open protocol, implemented as open source code — anyone could take a copy of it, twiddle it a bit and have a new coin. It took until April 2011 for the first “fork” of the Bitcoin code to come out — Namecoin, an attempt at a decentralised replacement for the Internet’s Domain Name Service (DNS).[1]
It was another four months until someone came up with a general altcoin, usable as a Bitcoin-style payment system — Ixcoin, on 10 August 2011.[2] The creator, “Thomas Nasakioto” — an anagram of "Satoshi Nakamoto"; he used a picture of Japanese actor Hiroyuki Sanada as his forum avatar — disappeared less than a month later, having scored about 50 bitcoins in the process. “Pretty sure it’s dead,” said one commenter. “It has served his purpose. Many people made quite a few BTC out of it.”[3]
A flood of what were rapidly labeled “altcoins” followed — i0coin, Solidcoin, RRCoin, Tenebrix, Litecoin. The Freenode Internet Relay Chat network started banning cryptocurrency servers that made automated network announcements around this time, rather than deal with what looked “like a botnet using their network.”[4]
The first Initial Coin Offering as we know it is commonly held to be Mastercoin in July 2013.[5] Mastercoin became OmniLayer — the platform for Tether. Mastercoin was the first sale of a token that ran as an application on top of another blockchain — in this case, Bitcoin: “I am VERY excited to announce that I now have a complete specification for building a protocol layer on top of bitcoin (like how HTTP runs on top of TCP/IP).”
Mastercoin didn’t use the phrase “Initial Coin Offering.” The phrase “IPO” — “Initial Public Offering,” in the manner of stock offerings for companies going public — was being used for altcoin offerings by 2014. IronBankCoin used “initial coin offering” and “ICO” by July 2014 — “The initial coin offering will be of 21% of the coin cap during the PoW (Proof of Work) stage” and “Initial Distribution of the Land (ICO info): ICO? Aren't those all scams?”[6]
Mastercoin never really took off as a token platform — that didn’t come until Ethereum made tokens easy to set up in 2015, and The DAO got press worldwide in 2016 by showing just how much money an ICO could pull in. Even as The DAO proceeded to lose $50 million to a hacker five days after launch.
  1. vinced. “(announce) Namecoin - a distributed naming system based on Bitcoin.” BitcoinTalk Bitcoin Forum > Bitcoin > Bitcoin Discussion, 18 April 2011.
  2. Nasakioto. “[ANNOUNCE] Mining on Ixcoin, a new Bitcoin fork.” Ixcoin Forum, 10 August 2011. (archive)
  3. Mindphlux. “Re: What happened to the ixcoin founder? Is Ixcoin dead?” BitcoinTalk Bitcoin Forum > Other > Alternate cryptocurrencies, 9 September 2011.
  4. DannyM. “Ixcoin, I0coin, future forks: Please respect Freenode Network.” BitcoinTalk Bitcoin Forum > Other > Alternate cryptocurrencies, 16 August 2011
  5. Dacoinminster. “OFFICIAL LAUNCH: New Protocol Layer Starting FromNew Protocol Layer Starting From ‘The Exodus Address’.” BitcoinTalk Bitcoin Forum > Bitcoin > Project Development, 31 July 2013.
  6. IronBankCoin. “(Pre-ANN)(IBC) IronBankCoin | 90-day PoW~PoS | Own part of the Known World.” BitcoinTalk Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Announcements (Altcoins), 17 June 2014, updated 28 July 2014.
submitted by dgerard to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

Beginner's Guide: Where to start & FAQ!

New Flair Rule

We've been overwhelmed with newcomer posts. In light of this, we created a bot that will PM people without flairs various pertinent information to read through when they post. In order to stop receiving these, simply add a flair to your name. Thanks!

Scam Warning

Hey guys. There have been numerous scammers lately who have been private messaging redditors. Their goal is for you to send Litecoins to their address. So far, they've followed the same writing template. It looks something like this: https://imgur.com/0UZczuz
If someone is telling you to send to a Litecoin address they are providing, DON'T. They're trying to steal your Litecoins. If you're not sure, read the wealth of knowledge below or comment below and I will eventually get to you.

Welcome to /Litecoin!

(Re-post of u/Sparkswont cuz it was archived)
Whether you're new to cryptocurrency and have no clue what a 'litecoin' is, or a seasoned investor in cryptocurrencies, the resources below will answer all your questions. If you still have questions, feel free to ask below in the comments!
 

What is Litecoin?

Litecoin (LTC or Ł) is a peer-to-peer cryptocurrency and open source software project released under the MIT/X11 license. Litecoin is one of the largest, oldest, and most used cryptocurrencies in the world. Similar to Bitcoin, Litecoin uses blockchain technology to process transactions.
So what's the difference? To process a block, Litecoin takes 2.5 minutes rather than Bitcoins 10 minutes. This allows for faster processing times. Litecoin also has the capability to produce a total of 84 million units, compared to Bitcoins 21 million. In addition, Litecoin uses scrypt in its proof-of-work algorithm, a sequential memory-hard function requiring asymptotically more memory than an algorithm which is not memory-hard.
Still confused? Take a look at this video!
 

Where can I buy Litecoin?

There are many websites and applications where you can buy and sell Litecoin, but make sure the exchange you are using is trusted and secure. Here are some exchanges that are trusted in the cryptocurrency community:
Exchange
Coinbase USD/Euro/GBP
Quadrigacx CAD
Coinsquare CAD
Bithump KRW
OKCoin Euro/Yen/USD
OKex CNY
Btcmarkets.net AUD
Bitso MXN
Zebpay INR
 

Where can I securely store Litecoin?

Litecoin (and other cryptocurrencies) is stored in a digital wallet. When storing Litecoin, you want to make sure you trust the place you store them. This is why it is best to store them yourself through the electrum wallet. It is highly suggested to not store your Litecoin in an exchange (such as Coinbase, Poloniex, Bittrex, etc.) because you don't control the private keys. If the exchange ever goes offline, or becomes insolvent, your Litecoin essentially disappear.
Some other options are:
Wallet
Electrum Lightweight Wallet
Official Core Wallet
LiteVault Secure Web Wallet
Paper Wallet Instructions
 
If you're a fan of mobile devices, then Loafwallet is the wallet for you. Developed by a Litecoin Foundation Dev, losh11, this mobile wallet works great! And remember to always make sure to write down your seedkeys.
 
Hardware wallets are another great option, in fact, they are said to be the most secure way to store cryptocurrencies. Below is a list of the litecoin flexible hardware wallets.
Wallet
Ledger
Trezor
Keepkey
 

Where can I spend Litecoin?

Litecoin is in the top ten of all cryptocurrencies by market capitalization. Websites are rapidly adopting Litecoin as a method of payment as well. If you yourself want to accept LTC as a business, you can refer to these merchant manuals. Alternatively, if you would like to explore websites that accept Litecoin, head over to /AcceptingLTC.
Here are also several of our favorite merchants accepting Litecoin.
 

Where can I discuss Litecoin?

The Litecoin community is extremely kind and robust. There are many forums and places where you can discuss Litecoin with others who are interested in the currency. Here are the main ones:
Platform
Reddit
Litecoin Markets Subreddit
Discord
Official Forum
IRC
 

Additional Resources and Help

If you have more questions, or are genuinely interested in learning more about Litecoin then be sure to read this series. If you have a specific question that you can't seem to find the answer too, ask below and someone will help you out!
submitted by ecurrencyhodler to litecoin [link] [comments]

Introducing Tari: A Decentralised Assets Protocol Built on Monero

What is Tari?

Tari is a decentralised assets protocol that is going to be built on top of Monero. Think of it as something like coloured coins or CounterParty, but for Monero and a lot more scalable (ie. not using an embedded consensus mechanism).

How is it built "on top of Monero"?

Tari will have a native token, like Counterparty, but it will operate as a merge-mined sidechain. Miners will be able to earn Tari block reward and fees as they mine Monero. In addition to binding itself to Monero's security model, Tari will also support atomic swaps between itself and Monero.

Who is building it?

Everyone! Tari will be an open-source project very much in the spirit of Monero, to the point of reusing a lot of the patterns we've developed for Monero over the years. However, it will initially be a little bit more centralised than Monero, which is fine as it is a layer 2 project that can afford to experiment a little without impacting on the purity of Monero's robustness and decentralisation.
This early form of centralisation comes in the form of the Tari organisation, which will act as a steward of the protocol in much the same way as the Monero Core Team acts as a steward of Monero. However, we have also formed Tari Labs based out of Johannesburg, South Africa, and we are in the process of hiring researchers, developers, and others, who will be among the first contributors to Tari.
That said, we do not believe that Tari Labs should be the sole owners of the ever-evolving design and architecture of the protocol, nor should they be the decision makers. They are merely a bunch of clever people working alongside anyone in the community that wishes to contribute to the Tari protocol.
If you would like to work at Tari Labs, and live in South Africa or are willing to relocate, then please do look at the available positions on the Tari website. Please note that on principle Tari Labs will not employ existing Monero contributors, so as not to place a drain on the relatively limited developer resources available to the Monero project.

You keep saying "we"...who is "we"?

Tari has been founded by myself (Riccardo Spagni), Naveen Jain, and Dan Teree. You can read more about us, as well as some of the other contributors to this very nascent project, on the About page on the Tari website.

So you're doing an ICO?

I will slay you where you stand.

Well then how will you pay for this?

I've decided to sell my watch and my power glove, obviously:-P
Seriously, though, Tari is backed by some of the world's leading top-tier VC firms, such as Redpoint, Trinity Ventures, Canaan Partners, Slow Ventures, Aspect Ventures, as well as some of the leading blockchain VC firms.

How does this benefit Monero?

Our investors believe in what we want to build with Tari, but they also believe in Monero as the world's leading private digital currency, and also as a powerful base layer upon which projects can be built. Because of this, we have capital that we are using to not only build the Tari protocol, but to enhance aspects of the Monero software stack and ecosystem.
Consider three examples of areas the Tari Labs team will be focusing on over the next year:
In addition, Tari has plans for ways we can more directly support Monero development in the future through the creation of development hubs around the world, where people will be able to apply for grants that will let them work on Monero or Tari for a period of time. This concept, whilst still in its infancy and quite far away from inception, will provide people with the opportunity to contribute to the Monero codebase, research, and ecosystem on a more regular, full-time basis.

Does this mean fluffypony is leaving Monero?!

No, not at all! In order to free up time for me to work on Tari I have taken two major steps in my professional life:
  1. I have stepped down as CEO of MyMonero, and have handed the reins to the very competent Paul Shapiro (aka endogenic). We are in the process of the last few bits being totally handed over, after which I will be non-operational on MyMonero.
  2. I have stepped down as CEO of GloBee, and have appointed a new CEO to replace me, Felix Honigwachs. Felix comes with a wealth of experience, having been a senior manager at Microsoft and at SAP, and more recently having been the founder and now-former CEO of one of the most influential healthcare software startups in South Africa. I have already become largely non-operational on GloBee as Felix has slid nicely into the role, even taking over my office and making me move to our management company's offices next door;)
That said, over the past year I've been reducing my roles within the Monero project itself, in order to ensure I am never a bus factor. Members of the community have stepped up to fill these roles, including Monero Core Team member luigi1111 taking over as lead maintainer on the Monero website and Monero GUI repos. I am determined to further reduce any reliance on me over time by continuing this trend, with an eventual goal of handing off the task of lead maintainer on the Monero CLI repo once we have added full support for deterministic builds.
My role in Monero will then solely focus on advocacy for Monero and privacy, technical advice and counsel to the contributors and maintainers where necessary, and I will continue to serve on the Core Team for as long as I am required and able to. In addition, I will also be spending a lot more time on the Monero Enterprise Alliance, which I hope to one day meme into existence.

What technologies will Tari be buit in?

While some of the moving parts will be determined among the development community as it comes together, one thing we have already decided on is to use Rust as our language of choice for the Tari protocol software. The decision to use Rust is partly because we believe that Rust is an incredibly capable language that is purpose-built for lower-level high performance software like this, but largely because we want to make sure that Tari does not drain any of the existing Monero contributor support.

This all sounds exciting...where do I sign up?

As mentioned before, we're reusing a lot of the patterns that have served the Monero community well over the past four years, some of which I'm directly responsible for and was quite surprised they worked at all;) The best places to join in the discussion and get involved with the burgeoning community are at:
submitted by fluffyponyza to Monero [link] [comments]

LocalMonero.co is now open! Finally, Monero's own LocalBitcoins.com

LocalMonero.co is now open!

My fellow Monero enthusiasts,
After what seems like an eternity we now have a person-to-person trading platform dedicated exclusively to Monero. Hopefully, the community will be accepting and we will see ads popping up all across the globe in the near future.
As is evident from the look and feel of the website, we blatantly ripped off were heavily inspired by LocalBitcoins.com (if it ain't broke...). However, we believe that as the specific needs of the Monero community will be brought to our attention the website will evolve into its own unique entity.
We are a team of Monero enthusiasts based in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is one of the three financial capitals of the World (the other two being New York and London), and is also the World’s freest economy. In addition, Hong Kong is known in the cryptocurrency industry as being one of the best jurisdictions for cryptocurrencies.
We are committed to your security and privacy. We don't bind any users' IPs and we don't require users to have emails. We keep trade chat logs for 180 days for purposes of dispute mediation. The logs are encrypted and all the attachments uploaded in the chat are watermarked and encrypted to prevent unauthorized use. Unfortunately (trust me, we hate it as much as you do), we do use Google APIs for geocoding (because theirs are the only ones that don't suck as far as we know) but we respect that some of our users will want to block Google, so for them we've provided the ability to input their latitude and longitude manually (used when searching for local trades near you).
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IRC Log from Ravencoin Open Developer Meeting - Aug 24, 2018

[14:05] <@wolfsokta> Hello Everybody, sorry we're a bit late getting started
[14:05] == block_338778 [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.72.214.222.226] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:06] <@wolfsokta> Here are the topics we would like to cover today • 2.0.4 Need to upgrade - What we have done to communicate to the community • Unique Assets • iOS Wallet • General Q&A
[14:06] == Chatturga changed the topic of #ravencoin-dev to: 2.0.4 Need to upgrade - What we have done to communicate to the community • Unique Assets • iOS Wallet • General Q&A
[14:06] <@wolfsokta> Daben, could you mention what we have done to communicate the need for the 2.0.4 upgrade?
[14:07] == hwhwhsushwban [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:07] <@wolfsokta> Others here are free to chime in where they saw the message first.
[14:07] == hwhwhsushwban [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has quit [Client Quit]
[14:08] Whats up bois
[14:08] hi everyone
[14:08] hi hi
[14:08] <@wolfsokta> Discussing the 2.0.4 update and the need to upgrade.
[14:08] <@Chatturga> Sure. As most of you are aware, the community has been expressing concerns with the difficulty oscillations, and were asking that something be done to the difficulty retargeting. Many people submitted suggestions, and the devs decided to implement DGW.
[14:09] <@Tron> I wrote up a short description of why we're moving to a new difficulty adjustment. https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-dark-gravity-wave-1da0a71657f7
[14:09] <@Chatturga> I have made posts on discord, telegram, bitcointalk, reddit, and ravencointalk.org from testnet stages through current.
[14:10] <@Chatturga> If there are any other channels that can reach a large number of community members, I would love to have more.
[14:10] <@wolfsokta> Thanks Tron, that hasn't been shared to the community at large yet, but folks feel free to share it.
[14:10] When was this decision made and by whom and how?
[14:10] <@Chatturga> I have also communicated with the pool operators and exchanges about the update. Of all of the current pools, only 2 have not yet updated versions.
[14:11] <@wolfsokta> The decision was made by the developers through ongoing requests for weeks made by the community.
[14:12] <@wolfsokta> Evidence was provided by the community of the damages that could be caused to projects when the wild swings continue.
[14:12] So was there a meeting or vote? How can people get invited
[14:12] <@Tron> It was also informed by my conversations with some miners that recommended that we make the change before the coin died. They witnessed similar oscillations from which other coins never recovered.
[14:13] only two pools left to upgrade is good, what about the exchanges? Any word on how many of those have/have not upgraded?
[14:13] <@wolfsokta> We talked about here in our last meeting Bruce_. All attendees were asked if they had any questions or concerns.
[14:13] == blondfrogs [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.185.245.87.219] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:13] == roshii [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.41.251.25.100] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:13] sup roshii long time no see
[14:14] <@Chatturga> Bittrex, Cryptopia, and IDCM have all either updated or have announced their intent to update.
[14:14] == wjcgiwgu283ik3cj [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:15] sup russki
[14:15] what's the status here?
[14:15] I don’t think that was at all clear from the last dev meeting
[14:15] I can’t be the only person who didn’t understand it
[14:15] <@wolfsokta> Are there any suggestions on how to communicate the need to upgrade even further? I am concerned that others might also not understand.
[14:17] I’m not sold on the benefit and don’t understand the need for a hard fork — I think it’s a bad precedent to simply go rally exchanges to support a hard fork with little to no discussion
[14:17] so just to note, the exchanges not listed as being upgraded or have announced their intention to upgrade include: qbtc, upbit, and cryptobridge (all with over $40k usd volume past 24 hours according to coinmarketcap)
[14:18] <@wolfsokta> I don't agree that there was little or no discussion at all.
[14:19] <@wolfsokta> Looking back at our meeting notes from two weeks ago "fork" was specifically asked about by BrianMCT.
[14:19] If individual devs have the power to simple decide to do something as drastic as a hard fork and can get exchanges and miners to do it that’s got a lot of issues with centralization
[14:19] <@wolfsokta> It had been implemented on testnet by then and discussed in the community for several weeks before that.
[14:19] == under [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.72.200.168.56] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:19] howdy
[14:19] Everything I’ve seen has been related to the asset layer
[14:19] I have to agree with Bruce_, though I wasn't able to join the last meeting here. That said I support the fork
[14:20] Which devs made this decision to do a fork and how was it communicated?
[14:20] well mostly the community made the decision
[14:20] Consensus on a change is the heart of bitcoin development and I believe the devs have done a great job building that consensus
[14:20] a lot of miners were in uproar about the situation
[14:20] <@wolfsokta> All of the devs were supporting the changes. It wasn't done in isolation at all.
[14:21] This topic has been a huge discussion point within the RVN mining community for quite some time
[14:21] the community and miners have been having issues with the way diff is adjusted for quite some time now
[14:21] Sure I’m well aware of that -
[14:21] Not sold on the benefits of having difficulty crippled by rented hashpower?
[14:21] The community saw a problem. The devs got together and talked about a solution and implemented a solution
[14:21] I’m active in the community
[14:22] So well aware of the discussions on DGW etc
[14:22] Hard fork as a solution to a problem community had with rented hashpower (nicehash!!) sounds like the perfect decentralized scenario!
[14:23] hard forks are very dangerous
[14:23] mining parties in difficulty drops are too
[14:23] <@wolfsokta> Agreed, we want to keep them to an absolute minimum.
[14:23] But miners motivation it’s the main vote
[14:24] What would it take to convince you that constantly going from 4 Th/s to 500 Gh/s every week is worse for the long term health of the coin than the risk of a hard fork to fix it?
[14:24] == Tron [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[14:24] This hardfork does include the asset layer right? if so why is it being delayed in implementation?
[14:24] <@wolfsokta> Come back Tron!
[14:24] coudl it have been implement through bip9 voting?
[14:24] also hard fork is activated by the community! that's a vote thing!
[14:24] @mrsushi to give people time to upgrade their wallet
[14:25] @under, it would be much hard to keep consensus with a bip9 change
[14:25] <@wolfsokta> We investigated that closely Under.
[14:25] == Tron [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:25] <@wolfsokta> See Tron's post for more details about that.
[14:25] <@spyder_> Hi Tron
[14:25] <@wolfsokta> https://medium.com/@tronblack/ravencoin-dark-gravity-wave-1da0a71657f7
[14:25] Sorry about that. Computer went to sleep.
[14:26] I'm wrong
[14:26] 2 cents. the release deadline of october 31st puts a bit of strain on getting code shipped. (duh). but fixing daa was important to the current health of the coin, and was widely suppported by current mining majority commuity. could it have been implemented in a different manner? yes . if we didnt have deadlines
[14:27] == wjcgiwgu283ik3cj [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.172.58.37.35] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[14:27] sushi this fork does not include assets. it's not being delayed though, we're making great progress for an Oct 31 target
[14:28] I don’t see the urgency but my vote doesn’t matter since my hash power is still CPUs
[14:28] <@wolfsokta> We're seeing the community get behind the change as well based on the amount of people jumping back in to mine through this last high difficulty phase.
[14:28] So that will be another hardfork?
[14:28] the fork does include the asset code though set to activate on oct 30th
[14:28] yes
[14:29] <@wolfsokta> Yes, it will based on the upgrade voting through the BIP9 process.
[14:29] I wanted to ask about burn rates from this group: and make a proposal.
[14:29] we're also trying hard to make it the last for awhile
[14:29] Can you clear up the above — there will be this one and another hard fork?
[14:29] <@wolfsokta> Okay, we could discuss that under towards the end of the meeting.
[14:30] If this one has the asset layer is there something different set for October
[14:30] <@wolfsokta> Yes, there will be another hard fork on October 31st once the voting process is successful.
[14:31] <@wolfsokta> The code is in 2.0.4 now and assets are active on testnet
[14:31] Bruce, the assets layer is still being worked on. Assets is active on mainnet. So in Oct 31 voting will start. and if it passes, the chain will fork.
[14:31] this one does NOT include assets for mainnet Bruce -- assets are targeted for Oct 31
[14:31] not***
[14:31] not active****
[14:31] correct me if I'm wrong here, but if everyone upgrades to 2.0.4 for this fork this week, the vote will automatically pass on oct 31st correct? nothing else needs to be done
[14:31] Will if need another download or does this software download cover both forks?
[14:31] <@wolfsokta> Correct Urgo
[14:32] thats how the testnet got activated and this one shows "asset activation status: waiting until 10/30/2018 20:00 (ET)"
[14:32] Will require another upgrade before Oct 31
[14:32] thank you for the clarification wolfsokta
[14:32] <@wolfsokta> It covers both forks, but we might have additional bug fixes in later releases.
[14:32] So users DL one version now and another one around October 30 which activates after that basically?
[14:33] I understand that, but I just wanted to make it clear that if people upgrade to this version for this fork and then don't do anything, they are also voting for the fork on oct 31st
[14:33] Oh okay — one DL?
[14:33] Bruce, Yes.
[14:33] Ty
[14:33] well there is the issue that there maybe some further consensus bugs dealing with the pruneability of asset transactions that needs to be corrected between 2.0.4 and mainnet. so i would imagine that there will be further revisions required to upgrade before now and october 31
[14:33] @under that is correct.
[14:34] I would highly recommend bumping the semver up to 3.0.0 for the final pre 31st release so that the public know to definitely upgrade
[14:34] @under +1
[14:35] out of curiosity, have there been many bugs found with the assets from the version released in july for testnet (2.0.3) until this version? or is it solely a change to DGW?
[14:35] <@wolfsokta> That's not a bad idea under.
[14:35] <@spyder_> @under good idea
[14:35] @urgo. Bugs are being found and fixed daily.
[14:35] Any time the protocol needs to change, there would need to be a hard fork (aka upgrade). It is our hope that we can activate feature forks through the BIP process (as we are doing for assets). Mining pools and exchanges will need to be on the newest software at the point of asset activation - should the mining hash power vote for assets.
[14:35] blondfrogs: gotcha
[14:35] There have been bugs found (and fixed). Testing continues. We appreciate all the bug reports you can give us.
[14:36] <@wolfsokta> Yes! Thank you all for your help in the community.
[14:37] (pull requests with fixes and test coverage would be even better!)
[14:37] asset creation collision is another major issue. current unfair advantage or nodes that fore connect to mining pools will have network topologies that guarantee acceptance. I had discussed the possibility of fee based asset creation selection and i feel that would be a more equal playing ground for all users
[14:38] *of nodes that force
[14:38] <@wolfsokta> What cfox said, we will always welcome development help.
[14:38] So just to make sure everyone know. When assets is ready to go live on oct 31st. Everyone that wants to be on the assets chain without any problems will have to download the new binary.
[14:39] <@wolfsokta> The latest binary.
[14:39] under: already in the works
[14:39] excellent to hear
[14:39] == UserJonPizza [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.24.218.60.237] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:39] <@wolfsokta> Okay, we've spent a bunch of time on that topic and I think it was needed. Does anybody have any other suggestions on how to get the word out even more?
[14:40] maybe preface all 2.0.X releases as pre-releases... minimize the number of releases between now and 3.0 etc
[14:41] <@wolfsokta> Bruce_ let's discuss further offline.
[14:41] wolfsokta: which are the remaining two pools that need to be upgraded? I've identified qbtc, upbit, and cryptobridge as high volume exchanges that haven't said they were going to do it yet
[14:41] so people can help reach out to them
[14:41] f2pool is notoriously hard to contact
[14:41] are they on board?
[14:42] <@wolfsokta> We could use help reaching out to QBTC and Graviex
[14:42] I can try to contact CB if you want?
[14:42] <@Chatturga> The remaining pools are Ravenminer and PickAxePro.
[14:42] <@Chatturga> I have spoken with their operators, the update just hasnt been applied yet.
[14:42] ravenminer is one of the largest ones too. If they don't upgrade that will be a problem
[14:42] okay good news
[14:42] (PickAxePro sounds like a Ruby book)
[14:43] I strongly feel like getting the word out on ravencoin.org would be beneficial
[14:44] that site is sorely in need of active contribution
[14:44] Anyone can volunteer to contribute
[14:44] <@wolfsokta> Okay, cfox can you talk about the status of unique assets?
[14:44] sure
[14:45] <@wolfsokta> I'll add website to the end of our topics.
[14:45] code is in review and will be on the development branch shortly
[14:45] would it make sense to have a page on the wiki (or somewhere else) that lists the wallet versions run by pools & exchanges?
[14:45] will be in next release
[14:45] furthermore, many sites have friendly link to the standard installers for each platform, if the site linked to the primary installers for each platform to reduce github newb confusion that would be good as well
[14:46] likely to a testnetv5 although that isn't settled
[14:46] <@wolfsokta> Thanks cfox.
[14:46] <@wolfsokta> Are there any questions about unique assets, and how they work?
[14:47] after the # are there any charachters you cant use?
[14:47] will unique assets be constrained by the asset alphanumeric set?
[14:47] ^
[14:47] <@Chatturga> @Urgo there is a page that tracks and shows if they have updated, but it currently doesnt show the actual version that they are on.
[14:47] a-z A-Z 0-9
[14:47] <@Chatturga> https://raven.wiki/wiki/Exchange_notifications#Pools
[14:47] There are a few. Mostly ones that mess with command-line
[14:47] you'll be able to use rpc to do "issueunique MATRIX ['Neo','Tank','Tank Brother']" and it will create three assets for you (MATRIX#Neo, etc.)
[14:47] @cfox - No space
[14:48] @under the unique tags have an expanded set of characters allowed
[14:48] Chatturga: thank you
[14:48] @UJP yes there are some you can't use -- I'll try to post gimmie a sec..
[14:49] Ok. Thank you much!
[14:49] 36^36 assets possible and 62^62 uniques available per asset?
[14:49] <@spyder_> std::regex UNIQUE_TAG_CHARACTERS("^[[email protected]$%&*()[\\]{}<>_.;?\\\\:]+$");
[14:50] regex UNIQUE_TAG_CHARACTERS("^[[email protected]$%&*()[\\]{}<>_.;?\\\\:]+$")
[14:50] oh thanks Mark
[14:51] <@wolfsokta> Okay, next up. I want to thank everybody for helping test the iOS wallet release.
[14:51] <@wolfsokta> We are working with Apple to get the final approval to post it to the App Store
[14:51] @under max asset length is 30, including unique tag
[14:51] Does the RVN wallet have any other cryptos or just RVN?
[14:52] == BruceFenton [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.67.189.233.170] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[14:52] will the android and ios source be migrated to the ravenproject github?
[14:52] I've been adding beta test users. I've added about 80 new users in the last few days.
[14:52] <@wolfsokta> Just RVN, and we want to focus on adding the asset support to the wallet.
[14:53] == Bruce_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.67.189.233.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[14:53] <@wolfsokta> Yes, the code will also be freely available on GitHub for both iOS and Android. Thank you Roshii!
[14:53] Would you consider the iOS wallet to be a more secure place for one's holdings than say, a Mac connected to the internet?
[14:53] will there be a chance of a more user freindly wallet with better graphics like the iOS on PC?
[14:53] the android wallet is getting updated for DGW, correct?
[14:53] <@wolfsokta> That has come up in our discussion Pizza.
[14:54] QT framework is pretty well baked in and is cross platform. if we get some qt gurus possibly
[14:54] Phones are pretty good because the wallet we forked uses the TPM from modern phones.
[14:54] Most important is to write down and safely store your 12 word seed.
[14:54] TPM?
[14:54] <@wolfsokta> A user friendly wallet is one of our main goals.
[14:55] TPM == Trusted Platform Module
[14:55] Ahhh thanks
[14:55] just please no electron apps. they are full of security holes
[14:55] <@spyder_> It is whats makes your stuffs secure
[14:55] not fit for crypto
[14:55] under: depends on who makes it
[14:55] The interface screenshots I've seen look like Bread/Loaf wallet ... I assume that's what was forked from
[14:55] ;)
[14:56] <@wolfsokta> @roshii did you see the question about the Android wallet and DGW?
[14:56] Yes, it was a fork of breadwallet. We like their security.
[14:56] chromium 58 is the last bundled electron engine and has every vuln documented online by google. so unless you patch every vuln.... methinks not
[14:56] Agreed, great choice
[14:57] <@wolfsokta> @Under, what was your proposal?
[14:58] All asset creation Transactions have a mandatory OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY of 1 year(or some agreed upon time interval), and the 500 RVN goes to a multisig devfund, run by a custodial group. We get: 1) an artificial temporary burn, 2) sustainable community and core development funding for the long term, after OSTK/Medici 3) and the reintroduction of RVN supply at a fixed schedule, enabling the removal of the 42k max cap of total As
[14:58] *im wrong on the 42k figure
[14:58] <@wolfsokta> Interesting...
[14:59] <@wolfsokta> Love to hear others thoughts.
[14:59] Update: I posted a message on the CryptoBridge discord and one of their support members @stepollo#6276 said he believes the coin team is already aware of the fork but he would forward the message about the fork over to them right now anyway
[14:59] Ifs 42 million assets
[14:59] yep.
[15:00] I have a different Idea. If the 500 RVN goes to a dev fund its more centralized. The 500 RVN should go back into the unmined coins so miners can stay for longer.
[15:01] *without a hardfork
[15:01] <@wolfsokta> lol
[15:01] that breaks halving schedule, since utxos cant return to an unmined state.
[15:01] @UJP back into coinbase is interesting. would have to think about how that effects distribution schedule, etc.
[15:01] only way to do that would be to dynamicaly grow max supply
[15:02] and i am concerned already about the max safe integer on various platforms at 21 billion
[15:02] js chokes on ravencoin already
[15:02] <@wolfsokta> Other thoughts on Under's proposal? JS isn't a real language. ;)
[15:02] Well Bitcoin has more than 21 bn Sats
[15:02] Is there somebody who wants to volunteer to fix js.
[15:02] hahaha
[15:03] I honestly would hate for the coins to go to a dev fund. It doesn't seem like Ravencoin to me.
[15:03] Yep, but we're 21 billion x 100,000,000 -- Fits fine in a 64-bit integer, but problematic for some languages.
[15:03] <@wolfsokta> Thanks UJP
[15:04] <@wolfsokta> We're past time but I would like to continue if you folks are up for it.
[15:04] Yeah no coins can go anywhere centrality contorted like a dev fund cause that would mean someone has to run it and the code can’t decide that so it’s destined to break
[15:05] currently and long term with out the financial backing of development then improvements and features will be difficult. we are certainly thankful for our current development model. but if a skunkworks project hits a particular baseline of profitability any reasonable company would terminate it
[15:05] Yes let’s contibue for sure
[15:05] the alternative to a dev fund in my mind would be timelocking those funds back to the issuers change address
[15:06] But we can’t have dev built in to the code — it has to be open source like Bitcoin and monero and Litecoin - it’s got drawbacks but way more advantages- it’s the best model
[15:06] Dev funding
[15:06] i highly reccommend not reducing the utility of raven by removing permanently the supply
[15:07] == BW_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.138.68.243.202] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:07] timelocking those funds accompllishes the same sacrifice
[15:07] @under timelocking is interesting too
[15:07] How exactly does timelocking work?
[15:07] <@wolfsokta> ^
[15:07] I mean you could change the price of assets with the Block reward halfing.
[15:07] == Roshiix [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.105.67.2.212] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:08] funds cant be spent from an address until a certain time passes
[15:08] but in a what magical fairy land do people continue to work for free forever. funding development is a real issue... as much as some might philosphically disagree. its a reality
[15:08] You’d still need a centralized party to decide how to distribute the funds
[15:08] even unofficially blockstream supports bitcoin devs
[15:08] on chain is more transparent imho
[15:09] == Tron_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:09] @UJP yes there are unlimited strategies. one factor that I think is v important is giving application developers a way to easily budget for projects which leads to flat fees
[15:09] If the project is a success like many of believe it will be, I believe plenty of people will gladly done to a dev fund. I don't think the 500 should be burned.
[15:09] *donate
[15:09] centralized conservatorship, directed by community voting process
[15:10] == Tron [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.173.241.144.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[15:10] <@wolfsokta> Thanks Under, that's an interesting idea that we should continue to discuss in the community. You also mentioned the existing website.
[15:10] It would need to be something where everyone with a QT has a vote
[15:10] think his computer went to sleep again :-/
[15:10] I agree UJP
[15:10] with the website
[15:10] No that’s ico jargon — any development fund tied to code would have to be centralized and would therefor fail
[15:11] ^
[15:11] ^
[15:11] ^
[15:11] dashes model for funding seems to be pretty decentralized
[15:11] community voting etc
[15:11] Once you have a dev fund tied to code then who gets to run it? Who mediates disputes?
[15:11] oh well another discussion
[15:11] Dash has a CEO
[15:12] <@wolfsokta> Yeah, let's keep discussing in the community spaces.
[15:12] Dash does have a good model. It's in my top ten.
[15:12] having the burn go to a dev fund is absolute garbage
[15:12] These dev chats should be more target than broad general discussions — changing the entire nature of the coin and it’s economics is best discussed in the RIPs or other means
[15:13] <@wolfsokta> Yup, let's move on.
[15:13] just becuase existing implementation are garbage doesnt mean that all possible future governance options are garbage
[15:13] <@wolfsokta> To discussing the website scenario mentioned by under.
[15:13] the website needs work. would be best if it could be migrated to github as well.
[15:13] What about this: Anyone can issue a vote once the voting feature has been added, for a cost. The vote would be what the coins could be used for.
[15:14] features for the site that need work are more user friendly links to binaries
[15:14] <@wolfsokta> We investigated how bitcoin has their website in Github to make it easy for contributors to jump in.
[15:14] that means active maintenance of the site instead of its current static nature
[15:15] <@wolfsokta> I really like how it's static html, which makes it super simple to host/make changes.
[15:15] the static nature isn’t due to interface it’s due to no contributors
[15:15] no contribution mechanism has been offered
[15:15] github hosted would allow that
[15:16] We used to run the Bitcoin website from the foundation & the GitHub integration seemed to cause some issues
[15:16] its doesnt necessarily have to be hosted by github but the page source should be on github and contributions could easily be managed and tracked
[15:17] for example when a new release is dropped, the ability for the downlaods section to have platform specific easy links to the general installers is far better for general adoption than pointing users to github releases
[15:18] <@wolfsokta> How do people currently contribute to the existing website?
[15:18] they dont?
[15:18] We did that and it was a complete pain to host and keep working — if someone wants to volunteer to do that work hey can surely make the website better and continually updated — but they could do that in Wordpress also
[15:19] I’d say keep an eye out for volunteers and maybe we can get a group together who can improve the site
[15:19] == digitalvap0r-xmr [[email protected]/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.67.255.25.134] has joined #ravencoin-dev
[15:19] And they can decide best method
[15:20] I host the source for the explorer on github and anyone can spin it up instantly on a basic aws node. changes can be made to interface etc, and allow for multilingual translations which have been offered by some community members
[15:20] there are models that work. just saying it should be looked at
[15:20] i gotta run thank you all for your contributions
[15:20] <@wolfsokta> I feel we should explore the source for the website being hosted in GitHub and discuss in our next dev meeting.
[15:21] <@Chatturga> Thanks Under!
[15:21] == under [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.72.200.168.56] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[15:21] <@wolfsokta> Thanks, we also need to drop soon.
[15:21] There is no official site so why care. Someone will do better than the next if RVN is worth it anyway. That's already the case.
[15:21] <@wolfsokta> Let's do 10 mins of open Q&A
[15:22] <@wolfsokta> Go...
[15:23] <@Chatturga> Beuller?
[15:24] No questions ... just a comment that the devs and community are great and I'm happy to be a part of it
[15:24] I think everyone moved to discord. I'll throw this out there. How confident is the dev team that things will be ready for oct 31st?
[15:24] <@wolfsokta> Alright! Thanks everybody for joining us today. Let's plan to get back together as a dev group in a couple of weeks.
[15:25] thanks block!
[15:25] <@wolfsokta> Urgo, very confident
[15:25] Please exclude trolls from discord who havent read the whitepaper
[15:25] great :)
[15:25] "things" will be ready..
[15:25] Next time on discord right?
[15:25] woah why discord?
[15:25] some of the suggestions here are horrid
[15:25] this is better less point
[15:25] == blondfrogs [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.185.245.87.219] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[15:25] Assets are working well on testnet. Plan is to get as much as we can safely test by Sept 30 -- this includes dev contributions. Oct will be heavy testing and making sure it is safe.
[15:26] people
[15:26] <@wolfsokta> Planning on same time, same IRC channel.
[15:26] == BW_ [[email protected]/web/freenode/ip.138.68.243.202] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
[15:26] @xmr any in particular?
[15:27] (or is "here" discord?)
[15:27] Cheers - Tron
[15:27] "Cheers - Tron" - Tron
submitted by Chatturga to Ravencoin [link] [comments]

Beginner's Guide: Where to start & FAQ!

Welcome to /Litecoin!

Whether you're new to cryptocurrency and have no clue what a 'litecoin' is, or a seasoned investor in cryptocurrencies, the resources below will answer all your questions. If you still have questions, feel free to ask below in the comments!
 

What is Litecoin?

Litecoin (LTC or Ł) is a peer-to-peer cryptocurrency and open source software project released under the MIT/X11 license. Litecoin is one of the largest, oldest, and most used cryptocurrencies in the world. Similar to Bitcoin, Litecoin uses blockchain technology to process transactions.
So what's the difference? To process a block, Litecoin takes 2.5 minutes rather than Bitcoins 10 minutes. This allows for faster processing times. Litecoin also has the capability to produce a total of 84 million units, compared to Bitcoins 21 million. In addition, Litecoin uses scrypt in its proof-of-work algorithm, a sequential memory-hard function requiring asymptotically more memory than an algorithm which is not memory-hard.
Still confused? Take a look at this video!
 

Where can I buy Litecoin?

There are many websites and applications where you can buy and sell Litecoin, but make sure the exchange you are using is trusted and secure. Here are some exchanges that are trusted in the cryptocurrency community:
Exchange
Coinbase
Kraken
247Exchange
Bittrex
Quadrigacx
 

Where can I securely store Litecoin?

Litecoin (and other cryptocurrencies) is stored in a digital wallet. When storing Litecoin, you want to make sure you trust the place you store them. This is why it is best to store them yourself through the electrum wallet. It is highly suggested to not store your Litecoin in an exchange (such as Coinbase, Poloniex, Bittrex, etc.) because you don't control the private keys. If the exchange ever goes offline, or becomes insolvent, your Litecoin essentially disappear.
Some other options are:
Wallet
Electrum Lightweight Wallet
Official Core Wallet
LiteVault Secure Web Wallet
Paper Wallet Generator
 
If you're a fan of mobile devices, then Loafwallet is the wallet for you. Developed by a Litecoin community member, losh11, this mobile wallet works great!
 
Hardware wallets are another great option, in fact, they are said to be the most secure way to store cryptocurrencies. Below is a list of the litecoin flexible hardware wallets.
Wallet
Ledger
Trezor
Keepkey
 

Where can I spend Litecoin?

Litecoin is now the sixth-largest true cryptocurrency by market capitalization. Websites are rapidly adopting Litecoin as a method of payment, if you would like to explore websites that accept Litecoin, head over to /AcceptingLTC.
Here are several of our favorite merchants accepting Litecoin:
Merchant
EGifter
Cheap Air
Bitfly
All Things Luxury
AFK Apparel
Many more!
 

Where can I discuss Litecoin?

The Litecoin community is extremely kind and robust. There are many forums and places where you can discuss Litecoin with others who are interested in the currency. Here are the main ones:
Platform
Reddit
Litecoin Markets Subreddit
Discord
Official Forum
IRC
 

Litecoin Statistics

Find them here
 

Additional Resources and Help

If you have more questions, or are genuinely interested in learning more about Litecoin then be sure to check out the Litecoin Wiki. If you have a specific question that you can't seem to find the answer too, ask below and someone will help you out!
submitted by Sparkswont to litecoin [link] [comments]

Beginner's Guide: Where to start & FAQ!

New Flair Rule

We've been overwhelmed with newcomer posts. In light of this, we created a bot that will PM people without flairs various pertinent information to read through when they post. In order to stop receiving these, simply add a flair to your name. Thanks!

Welcome to /Litecoin!

(Re-post of u/Sparkswont cuz it was archived)
Whether you're new to cryptocurrency and have no clue what a 'litecoin' is, or a seasoned investor in cryptocurrencies, the resources below will answer all your questions. If you still have questions, feel free to ask below in the comments!
 

What is Litecoin?

Litecoin (LTC or Ł) is a peer-to-peer cryptocurrency and open source software project released under the MIT/X11 license. Litecoin is one of the largest, oldest, and most used cryptocurrencies in the world. Similar to Bitcoin, Litecoin uses blockchain technology to process transactions.
So what's the difference? To process a block, Litecoin takes 2.5 minutes rather than Bitcoins 10 minutes. This allows for faster processing times. Litecoin also has the capability to produce a total of 84 million units, compared to Bitcoins 21 million. In addition, Litecoin uses scrypt in its proof-of-work algorithm, a sequential memory-hard function requiring asymptotically more memory than an algorithm which is not memory-hard.
Still confused? Take a look at this video!
 

Where can I buy Litecoin?

There are many websites and applications where you can buy and sell Litecoin, but make sure the exchange you are using is trusted and secure. Here are some exchanges that are trusted in the cryptocurrency community:
Exchange
Coinbase USD/Euro/GBP
Bithump KRW
OKCoin Euro/Yen/USD
OKex CNY
Btcmarkets.net AUD
Bitso MXN
Zebpay INR
 

Where can I securely store Litecoin?

Litecoin (and other cryptocurrencies) is stored in a digital wallet. When storing Litecoin, you want to make sure you trust the place you store them. This is why it is best to store them yourself through the electrum wallet. It is highly suggested to not store your Litecoin in an exchange (such as Coinbase, Poloniex, Bittrex, etc.) because you don't control the private keys. If the exchange ever goes offline, or becomes insolvent, your Litecoin essentially disappear.
Some other options are:
Wallet
Electrum Lightweight Wallet
Official Core Wallet
LiteVault Secure Web Wallet
Paper Wallet Instructions
 
If you're a fan of mobile devices, then Loafwallet is the wallet for you. Developed by a Litecoin Foundation Dev, losh11, this mobile wallet works great! And remember to always make sure to write down your seedkeys.
 
Hardware wallets are another great option, in fact, they are said to be the most secure way to store cryptocurrencies. Below is a list of the litecoin flexible hardware wallets.
Wallet
Ledger
Trezor
Keepkey
 

Where can I spend Litecoin?

Litecoin is in the top ten of all cryptocurrencies by market capitalization. Websites are rapidly adopting Litecoin as a method of payment as well. If you yourself want to accept LTC as a business, you can refer to these merchant manuals. Alternatively, if you would like to explore websites that accept Litecoin, head over to /AcceptingLTC.
Here are also several of our favorite merchants accepting Litecoin.
 

Where can I discuss Litecoin?

The Litecoin community is extremely kind and robust. There are many forums and places where you can discuss Litecoin with others who are interested in the currency. Here are the main ones:
Platform
Reddit
Litecoin Markets Subreddit
Discord
Official Forum
IRC
 

Additional Resources and Help

If you have more questions, or are genuinely interested in learning more about Litecoin then be sure to read this series. If you have a specific question that you can't seem to find the answer too, ask below and someone will help you out!
submitted by ecurrencyhodler to litecoin [link] [comments]

Testnet under attack, if anyone got old miners they can help by using pool 138.197.169.75

[27/09/2018] my pool is 138.197.169.75 which is mining on the valid chain.
The testnet for Bitcoin is under attack by mining the invalid-rules chain (the one before fix for latest exploit - https://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/9hkoo6/new_info_escalates_importance_upgrading_to_0163/ - https://bitcoincore.org/en/2018/09/20/notice/ )
From IRC #bitcoin (on irc.freenode.org) - the operator Echeveria runs a pool to help, any mining hardware can be pointed on it to help.
submitted by Etovia to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Tau/Agoras FAQ (Updated Jan 2018)

What is Tau?
Tau is a blockchain platform that will allow for on-the-fly logical consensus detection which enables it to scale some of the largest bottlenecks to human advancement including social governance and knowledge creation.
By using a self defining and decidable logical framework, Tau is the first in this space to be able to gather data voluntarily submitted by its users and logically deduce valuable knowledge over a network secured with blockchain technology.
What this means is that in effect, we can scale collaborative endeavors between thousands of mathematicians, doctors, computer scientists, engineers and other experts to greatly accelerate the production of knowledge.
Tau aims to become an indispensable technology. Once Tau has launched, any company, nation or organization not using the collaborative power of the network will be rendered obsolete.
What is Agoras?
Agoras will be an integral platform built over the Tau network and will serve as the primary economy that'll take full advantage of Tau's revolutionary features.
Agoras itself is comprised of 3 distinct parts: 1) Automated Knowledge Economy 2) Computational Resource Market and 3) Advanced Currency with Derivatives Features.
Through the power of Tau, we envision the possibility of fully autonomous businesses operating over the Agoras virtual economy.
Where can I buy Tau/Agoras?
Tau itself has no token much in the same way as the internet, as a piece of technology, has no need for a token. However, the best way to invest in this project is by purchasing Agoras tokens, which will be the primary currency of the marketplace to be built over Tau.
Currently, these tokens are placeholder tokens in the form of an Omni Asset based on the Bitcoin blockchain. They will be exchanged for actual Agoras tokens once our own blockchain is ready.
Agoras is actively trading on the following exchanges:
  1. BCEX, a top 10 ranked exchange by trading volume https://www.bcex.top/trade/agrs2btc
  2. ChaoEX https://www.chaoex.com
How can I hold my Agoras Tokens?
You may hold on Agoras in your omni wallet https://www.omniwallet.org/, or in any Bitcoin address to which you possess the private key such as a paper wallet.
If you use the last method and wish to send Agoras out, you'll first have to import your private key to Omni.
How are Agoras tokens to be distributed?
There are a total of 42 million Agoras tokens in existence representing 100% of future circulating supply.
Ohad Asor is only reserving 3% for himself and his team, which means 97% will eventually be sold.
To date, about 30 million have been sold over the last 2 years. Ohad has suspended direct sales until project development progresses further along.
Agoras represents one of the fairest fund raising and distributions of tokens in the crypto space.
What is the Roadmap for this project?
Tau progress can be generally defined by the following milestones:
Beyond this stage, we will be working on Agoras.
Precise deadlines are relatively meaningless in the world of software engineering, but the development team estimate it's likely it can complete the Tau Meta Language and the Collaborative Discussions Platform some time this year (2018), and perhaps development would progress even faster than anticipated.
Who is the Lead Developer Ohad Asor?
Ohad Asor is an accomplished mathematician, programmer, computer scientist and logician.
Ohad went to university at the age of 13, and is regarded by many as a true genius even among prodigies. He has devoted almost all his spare time to rigorous academic studies, and as a result, has developed extensive knowledge that few experts could match.
Ohad has over 30 years of experience in programming (don't worry he's not that old, only 37).
Tau's design is the culmination of years of research by Ohad, particularly in the areas of complexity theory, linear algebra, logic and social choice theory. It represents the seamless combination of the cutting edge of all these fields.
We very much welcome technical questions in our IRC regarding any of these areas and more.
Where can I see the code?
You can find the Tau github repository is here https://github.com/IDNI/tau
This all seems too good to be true, where can I get more information?
Ohad's new blog gives a fairly robust overview of the project Trafalgar's Introduction to Tau and follow up are fairly accessible explanations of the project Dana Edwards has written a number of posts on Tau/Agoras. Here is an introduction to the Tau Meta Language
submitted by miao-tau to tauchain [link] [comments]

LocalMonero.co is now open! Finally, Monero's own LocalBitcoins.com

LocalMonero.co is now open!

My fellow Monero enthusiasts,
After what seems like an eternity we now have a person-to-person trading platform dedicated exclusively to Monero. Hopefully, the community will be accepting and we will see ads popping up all across the globe in the near future.
As is evident from the look and feel of the website, we blatantly ripped off were heavily inspired by LocalBitcoins.com (if it ain't broke...). However, we believe that as the specific needs of the Monero community will be brought to our attention the website will evolve into its own unique entity.
We are a team of Monero enthusiasts based in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is one of the three financial capitals of the World (the other two being New York and London), and is also the World’s freest economy. In addition, Hong Kong is known in the cryptocurrency industry as being one of the best jurisdictions for cryptocurrencies.
We are committed to your security and privacy. We don't keep any IP logs and we don't require users to have emails. We keep trade chat logs for 180 days for purposes of dispute mediation. The logs are encrypted and all the attachments uploaded in the chat are watermarked and encrypted to prevent unauthorized use. Unfortunately (trust me, we hate it as much as you do), we do use Google APIs for geocoding (because theirs are the only ones that don't suck as far as we know) but we respect that some of our users will want to block Google, so for them we've provided the ability to input their latitude and longitude manually (used when searching for local trades near you).
Our site was built to be responsive and adaptive to different screen sizes, but we also plan to develop a mobile app if there is enough demand.
Additional features that we are planning to implement:
Me an Alex_LocalMonero will be active in this thread and on /LocalMonero as well as on the #monero IRC and #localmonero IRC (also on freenode)
Site: https://localmonero.co
Tor hidden service: http://localmonerogt7be.onion
I2P: http://lm.i2p
B32 I2P: http://yeyar743vuwmm6fpgf3x6bzmj7fxb5uxhuoxx4ea76wqssdi4f3q.b32.i2p
Twitter: https://twitter.com/LocalMoneroCo (@LocalMoneroCo)
Reddit: https://reddit.com/LocalMonero
VK: https://vk.com/localmonero
Telegram: https://t.me/localmoneroco
FB: https://www.facebook.com/localmoneroco
IRC: irc://chat.freenode.net/#localmonero
submitted by optocomp to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

MASSIVE BITCOIN NEWS!!!!!!! PRESIDENT BULLISH ON BITCOIN!!!?? HUUGE BREAKOUT IMMINENT!!! GREAT News About Bitcoin (1 Reason for Moon) Confirmed! PayPal Just Said YES to Cryptocurrency in 2020!  Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency News Bitcoin Rising With The Tide?! July 2020 Price Prediction & News Analysis LEAKED: The US in HEAVY Accumulation as NEW Bitcoin Institutional Investor REVEALED

During the Easter weekend (April 12th to 15th) we will be purging the freenode services database. We periodically prune the database to remove expired accounts, nicknames and channels. Just like previous database purges we will be removing any accounts and nicknames that have not been used for 120 days at the time of the purge. Search Bitcoin in the channels list of IRC network freenode and get informed about freenode's users and topics! Current Chat Rooms: bitcoin, bitcoin-pricetalk, bitcoin-core-dev, bitcoin-otc, bitcoinsoftware, electrum, lightning-dev, talos-workstation, bitcoin-dev, #bitcoin The freenode project is run entirely by volunteers. All of the current volunteers came to the project through involvement with one or more of the projects that use freenode. The organisational structure of the freenode project can be split roughly into four areas, each with a designated lead or leads. join the #1 source on bitcoin and decentralization. Freedom Node is the edge every crypto enthusiast needs to get ahead in this industry. Click that sleek button to learn more about exactly what it is we offer. #bitcoin-news freenode - Bitcoin Chat. This is a small report about chat room #bitcoin-news, a so called IRC channel on network freenode.This report usually includes user statistics and chat topics of the last days and weeks, if the IRC channel was already registered and its administrators didn't set its channel modes to private or secret.

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MASSIVE BITCOIN NEWS!!!!!!! PRESIDENT BULLISH ON BITCOIN!!!?? HUUGE BREAKOUT IMMINENT!!!

BITCOIN SETUP FOR HUUUGE BULL RALLY?!! 💰Crypto Analysis TA Today & BTC Cryptocurrency Price News Now - Duration: 13:38. Crypto Kirby Trading 13,976 views 13:38 And, as bitcoin options just expired, we bring YOU the best Bitcoin news in the US in 2020! Watch the whole video. New Bitcoin Mining Machines Hit US As Major Firm Inks Deal With Bitmain 07:20 Ethereum News 08:24 Huobi Bitcoin News 09:51 Final Thoughts ***** Support the channel:--Buy Bitcoin w/ the Cash App! The easiest way to buy bitcoin in 2020 in the US! Try using my code and ... Bitcoin Analysis, Top bitcoin analysis, price prediction, Bitcoin Trading, Bitcoin 2018, Bitcoin Crash, Bitcoin Moon, Bitcoin News, Bitcoin Today, Best Bitcoin Analysis, Bitcoin price, Bitcoin to ... For daily updates on cryptocurrency and the best bitcoin news online , hit the bell, like and subscribe! ****This is a Sponsored Video***** Altcoin Daily and CryptoTraderTax have entered into an ...

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