Is it really cheaper to buy bitcoin on btc-e? Here are some calculations
So you want to deposit some fiat into btc-e?
Thinking to bankwire - be prepared for 15+ wait time, fees and KYC. Contrary to popular belief, you can't move fiat in without being KYC'd to btc-e and partner banks. The cost (for USD): 0.5%, but min $20.
2.The cheapest instant method would be e-wallets. The cheapest options are MoneyPolo and OkPay (1% fee). But to get your precious fiat you will incur 2.1 4.5%+~$1 fee for Debit card to MoneyPolo deposit. Or 0.5% +$20 min. fee for bank wire. 2.2 0.5% receiving fee + whatever fee you'll pay for depositing your usd from your bank/card. Thus we have at least 4% deposit fees to get into btc-e alone. And remember, you WON'T be able to a move anything before getting slapped by KYC & AML from Okpay and MoneyPolo. Still believe that btc-e is a money-laundering heaven? :) But let's abstract ourselves from fiat-to-ewallet shenanigans and attempt to do what every arbitrage wannabe would want to do: exploit the juice price difference. Huobi has an option of okpay usd withdrawal. It costs 0.5%. To receive the money to your wallet it will cost 0.5%. That's 1% already. To deposit okpay to btc-e you incur another 1%. That's 2%. Now you want to buy those cheap btc. And you get 0.25% fee for the order, because it's a market order for you need btc fast. Thus 2.25%. For the sake of experiment, let's disregard the miner fees needed to send bitcoin back to huobi. To sell your 1 btc you have to pay another 0.2%. Thus all full circle will consume at least 2.45% in fees. At this moment the highest btc-e ask is at $985, huobi bid at $1013. That is 2.84% difference. Subtract 2.45% and get ~0.4% of potential profit, provided that the market does not move against you, while you move money between exchanges. For the "ex Soviet mob" believers out there: due to socio-economical reasons, most transactions in the countries are done in cash. Subsequently, there's a class of all sorts of people, who engage into forex exchange manually, and now in bitcoin. Many of those use btc-e as a vault and a reference point. But we too are slapped with fees that vary according to the spread installed by those exchangers. It might seem that btc-e is a cheap place, while in fact it isn't. And as in many poor countries, sometimes it is even more expensive than your average western bitcoin exchange.
The asset trading and lending in the Vena Network have realized the conversion between Token and fiat currency. Therefore, it’s a problem that mismatch between the irreversibility of the Blockchain encryption assets transfer and retractability of many methods of fiat currency payment we often considered when performing a transaction. Common payment methods and their transaction reversibility are as follows: Payment Method Currencies Reversibility of Transactions PayPal - regular Most world currencies Extremely easy to charge back. Also, since trading bitcoin is against their ToS, good luck disputing the chargeback. Paypal - personal Most world currencies If funded via bank, requires person to dispute the ACH, which may be more arduous. If funded via credit card, requires person to dispute the CC charge, which is pretty easy. Since there's no way to tell what the funding source was... it's a gamble. Also, if paypal account is reported stolen, paypal will probably attempt to claw back the money. AliPay / Wechat Pay CNY There are reports of reversed AliPay payments can be found on the Internet. Dwolla USD Since Dwolla amounts are funded via ACH, Dwolla will now reverse payments if the funds were the result of fraud. Additionally, Dwolla's Terms and Conditions now state that peyments received are subject to chargebacks as the result of their internal dispute resolution process. Credit / Debit card Any currency Extremely easy to charge back. In response to this mismatch, the Vena Foundation will make relevant requirements for the payment methods of the fiat currency supported by the Vena nodes, and must choose payment methods with irreversibility of transactions (such as Bank wire, MoneyPak, Webmoney, LavaPay, OKPay, etc) that are compliant with regional laws and regulations, to match the characteristics of Blockchain asset transfer to achieve a broad degree of transactional atomicity and prevent fraud and other risks.
I'm asking OKPay.com publicly to unlock my account!
EDIT: read all about it here: http://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/1qedbo/heres_my_horror_story_with_okpaycom/ ...before I write here my reasons to believe I'm scammed right now, even if I am in "verified" status, sent all documents of mine. Everything clear from my side and I only requested OKPay debit plastic card to be sent to my address. You have 24 hours to unlock marko [at] vizio . biz P.S. I had no means of accessing their site because they blocked my IP, so I had to go this way. The story is developing and it's very interesing... hang on... will post updates.
-cashintocoins has been severely lagging since there's much more money being requested than there is in stock -i don't have a credit card and will never have a credit card so i can't do instant buy from Coinbase, and i'm not gonna wait 4 days if they're gonna lock in the price instead of just letting me transfer money and THEN buy the coins after those 4 days, and have the amount of bitcoins that i'm actually paying for at the moment i buy them -i'm never gonna use localbitcoins, prices are waaayyy too high -i don't have a utility bill so no mtgox -bitstamp is taking forever to verify me -okpay won't let me get verified since i'm from the US -24change seems sketch because liqpay seems sketch and i hear a lot of US transactions don't go through -virwox has a tiny maximum limit and i'm not even sure if they do US credit/debit cards -campbx hasn't rolled out bank transfers yet -coinmkt hasn't either SO WHAT THE HECK CAN I USE???
So, now that MtGox's Dwolla account has been shut down (right after I got verified by MtGox and set up a Dwolla account), what is the best way to get USD out of MtGox to a US bank account? The options I see are direct international bank transfer, OKPAY, or buying Bitcoins again, sending them to another exchange, and selling them there, at which point the question becomes what the best way to get USD out of that exchange are. The bank transfer costs ¥2000 (~$20). It sounds like it may take a week or more to go through (they are a little vague in the MtGox FAQ about this). On top of this, I need to do it in a few batches, since it's more than $1000 that I'm transferring out; so that's $20 per $1000 batch, or about 2% in fees. I've tried browsing OKPAY's website, and I'm pretty confused, because it seems like there are lots of different options and varying fees. I could apparently do bank transfers out, get a debit card, etc. The MtGox FAQ says that there's a 1% withdrawal fee for withdrawing to OKPAY; and OKPAY says that there's a 1% fee for doing a transfer to a bank account. So does that mean that I'd be paying a net of 2% to get from MtGox into my bank account? Or I could do an OKPAY debit card; by my calculations, that would be 1% + $15 for the card, and a several week wait for delivery; and then I would need to use it for POS transactions, as withdrawing cash from it at an ATM from it has a 2% fee (with a minimum of $3 per withdrawal). Or I could buy BTC and sell them on another exchange. But the exchange rate on MtGox is higher than the other big USD exchanges (by up to 8%), on top of whatever fees or complications the other exchanges have, so that's a considerably more expensive option. Anyone have any advice on the best way of getting USD out of MtGox that they have personal experience with? I'm interested a bit more in speed and convenience than the absolute cost, but I also don't want to be bled dry with fees. I'm also wondering if it's worth setting up a new bank account to receive this, or just use my personal checking account. What do other people do? Setting up and maintaining another account at my bank may be a hassle, though I've been considering it for various online account purposes such as PayPal.
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Indacoin. The World's first bitcoin exchange which accepts Credit Cards. Earn $20 per transaction
Affiliate program Indacoin is one of the few platforms where people can buy bitcoins and litecoins with a bank card (Visa & Mastercard) issued in any country. Also customers can purchase cryptocurrency with Payer, PerfectMoney and OKPay. You will receive up to 2% from each money transfer made by your referral. Since in the world there are no alternatives to purchase Bitcoins with credit/debit card, there are a lot of clients that use Indacoin in the United States, Europe, CIS, Latin America and other countries. Our users usually make about 3-4 purchases per month that worth more than 1500$. Partner terms: - you will get up to 2% per transaction - payment of remuneration in Bitcoins and USD (Okpay) - built-in chat with customer support We use a tiered commission structure to reward our best affiliates. The more users you invite to Indacoin, the higher your commission rate will be. To start working with us, you need to create an Indacoin account here (https://indacoin.com/login?register=1) and go to Settings -> Affiliate
I am looking for a trusted service who can accept bitcoin to pay for a service on a VISA-only website. Amount is small (10€) but privacy is very important to me. All I found online is virtual debit card services like OKPAY that have high signup fees and unclear privacy - that's too complicated process for a single expense. Any advice from the community?
12-21 18:57 - 'Don't forget the counterparty risk! Don't keep your coins in exchanges and e-wallets! Store your bitcoins somewhere safe!!!' (self.Bitcoin) by /u/shadowboyah removed from /r/Bitcoin within 0-5min
''' Now that the price is going to the moon, I'd like to bring back the topic of counterparty risk. Because I see new people coming in, I'd like to inform them that leaving your money to someone else, be it a bank, an exchange, a darknet market, a borrower etc etc, you face the risk of never getting your money back! In Bitcoin there have been many hacks, ponzis, scams which have affected it price very negatively. Some of the most famous ones where : Bitcoinica, Mt. Gox, BTCe, Poloniex, BitStamp, Cryptsy, Shapeshift, Gatecoin, Bitfinex, BTER, Vircurex, Mintpal, Bitpay, Cavirtex, Bitquick, the DAO, Bittrex, cloud mining scams, p2p lending, Darknet markets exit scamming/getting bust etc. The way they were hacked varied, some didn't lose customer funds, others refunded them, others lost altcoins etc, but the danger of losing everything is still there. Coinbase has had problems with the IRS demanding customer info, Cryptsy lawsuit because they helped Cryptsy's CEO steal and cash out customer funds, freezing accounts for gambling etc, not giving customer's Ethereum Classic after the Fork and so on. Some of the 'old guys' know about all that and prefer to stay safe. Others keep risking it. Just be the smart guy! Very few people profit from trading or arbitrage! Do you think you are in the 10-20% of people that constantly make money trading? Chances are you aren't... In a year you could have made more than 2-3x just by holding your coins in a private wallet! Some people were lending money at Bitfinex to earn interest (more than 10% per year). Guess what happened to them... They initially lost 36% and then it went down to 18% due to BFX's clever trick. And some people just kept USD in that exchange thinking nobody could take it from them. Don't get distracted by high yields by any altcoin like Dash, Nubits, Lending Club or Cloud mining scheme. 90-100% of all those are scams or just unable to keep their promises. Some people might have profited, but on the expense of others, and in total, more people lost than gained. And you are going to ask me: What if I want to sell or buy some coins? How do I do it? Well, nowadays there are many ways where you can do that safely. Might not very cheap, but these are probably some of the best ways to do it: Localbitcoin, Bitcoin.de, Paxful, Wallofcoins, BitBargain, Bitsquare, Tether (Omni Dex), Mycelium local trader, Purse.io, itBit, Gemini or Glidera, are some ways where you can buy coins with very little counterparty risk and OTC. If you still insisted in trading, BTCC and Kraken are currently the best exchanges in my opinion! The best way to buy coins would be to buy them with your debit/credit card and get them sent to your private wallet instantly! Some exchanges/services that I know are Glidera, Bitstamp, Coinbase, Bitx, Coinsbank and CEX.io. There might be others, but I don't know how good they are (I never buy with credit cards btw). I mainly use Kraken. I once deposited coins and sold them on Kraken and within 1 day I had my Euros in my SEPA account. Selling coins is riskier and the only 100% safe way, is to exchange BTC with cash with someone that you trust. I used to sell coins via Localbitcoin a few years ago. I would buy from an exchange and sell it for more there. After some time, I stopped using Localbitcoins. I had a small customer base, which I trusted and they trusted me. I'd work simply with bank deposits. At some point I trusted them and they trusted me so much, that I would send them the coins even the day before they'd make the deposit. I never had a single problem. But, I had problems when I started... On my first trade someone tricked me on my first trade and I released the coins without ever getting the payment. I also had a problem when I sold coins with Paypal as he did a chargeback. I was young and naive, but luckily I didn't lose more than 200£ in total. Do some KYC to make sure they aren’t sending money from a hacked account or use services like Moneypolo, OkPay and Perfect money. These services are great for sellers, but as a buyer you might lose your money if you get hacked. Avoid services where someone can reverse a transaction like PayPal and Skrill. It isn't just about the exchanges getting hacked. What if you get hacked? Someone could easily steal all your details and even if you had 2FA on, they could steal your funds (something extremely hard to do, maybe impossible, if you had a hardware wallet. Finally, arbitrage isn't that profitable. The probability of one exchange getting hacked is lower than the probability of one out of five exchange being hacked. So you have to expect losses from at least one exchange... Bitstamp, BTCe and Poloniex made their customers whole again and that's very honorable, but how many more blows can they take? What if they lose altcoins and they take the route of socialised losses? ''' Don't forget the counterparty risk! Don't keep your coins in exchanges and e-wallets! Store your bitcoins somewhere safe!!! Go1dfish undelete link unreddit undelete link Author: shadowboyah
Most of the discussion around here revolves around MtGox, Bitstamp, etc. However, there is a healthy OTC market for Bitcoins, and for those of us who aren't interested in market timing this might be a good option. I have tested the waters with Localbitcoins but never actually completed a trade. I'm curious if anyone has any experience with Localbitcoins, especially in the USA, and especially utilizing online payment systems such as EgoPay OKPay, and/or Perfectmoney. My thought is to use one of these services to fund a prepaid debit card with which to spend my bitcoin-fiat in the "real world."
Criei uma conta na OKPAY e conseguir valida-la, fazendo a solicitação do Debit card deles para fazer o CASHOUT. Agora a duvida, acredito eu que não seja possível creditar a conta usando Bitcoin ou transferências vindas de fundos de BTC como "fonte de renda", apesar de que eu tenho saldo em USD na conta da OKPAY através dessas transferências. Alguém que usa a OKPay ou quem já tentou, sabe sobre o assunto? Alguém conhece uma outra forma de realizar CashOut de BTC aqui no Brasil? (Tenho minerado mas não tenho conseguido retirar o lucro obtido)
What are the best debit card options available right now for bitcoin? I've looked at Okpay but exchange rate plus commission up to 5.5% seems too rich for my blood... what are some of the other options for debit cards?
Just wanted to mention this company okpay because I think it will be handy for many people. They are basicly your typical online bank but they also integrate with bitcoin. So you will get your standard bank account number and sort code with debit card, however when funding your account other than the usual method of sending pounds or euros you can also send bitcoins. They simply provide you with a wallet address linked to your account and you can transfer bitcoins from your wallet to your okpay wallet and they will auto exchange it into your accounts currency. So a very easy way to load up a debit card and pay in cash. What would be really cool which they dont seem to do however is if they could do the opposite. Namley receive funds in GBP, Euros etc and auto convert it into bitcoins. In this way people could begin to receive wages in bitcoins by simply telling their employer to send payment to their okpay account. Im going to try and contact them and see if they might consider offering this in the future. https://www.okpay.com/en/company/news/okpay-bitcoin.html
The plastic bitcoin debit cards can be a very useful tool for those who would like to have access to their bitcoins in an easy way. The card works just like any other prepaid debit card, users can use the balance to pay at shops, purchase online or withdraw money from ATMs. Ordering the card […] Credit and debit cards are the most popular payment method when buying goods and services worldwide. That’s also the reason why people favor bank cards over other payment methods. Therefore, when looking for the best option to buy Bitcoin instantly, look no further—choose debit cards or credit cards. Thanks to innovative companies, such as E-Coin, OKPay, Bit-X, Xapo, and the Shift Card, you can now have a bitcoin debit card that allows you to visit a local ATM and withdraw funds or make purchases from your electronic bitcoin wallet. The platform requires you to register for free and then you can buy bitcoin, although OKPay has been deleted from the list of available payment methods. The website supports several payment options and the credit card limit is set at $20000 per day and $50000 per month. Hey r/bitcoin, I wired $6,000 usd to OKPay from my company account in order to load it onto BTC-E to take advantage of their lower rates. Occasionally the difference is low enough from MtGox to justify the expenses. The declined my application for the debit card. Now I have no use for OKPay, but I'm afraid to close my account because they
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